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 Rewatch Downunder: A4 Time Squad - Saturday 21st Jan 2023
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| Obsidian |
Posted on 21-01-2023 09:55
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 Moderator  Posts: 8903 Joined: 15.01.22 |
Zen seems to be sturggling to break free of the System's residual controls. I wonder if it picked up Jenna's name 'Liberator' because it wanted to be liberated itself? Possibly. It's those little, cranky human characteristics about Zen that made the Jabberwocky stories so plausible, where the computer is actually based on a human brain. Don't philosophise at me you electronic moron.
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| Tyce |
Posted on 21-01-2023 09:55
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 Alpha Grade  Posts: 3207 Joined: 16.01.22 |
Do you know Firefly, Obsidian? It would be interesting to compare Blake's leadership style with that of Malcolm Reynolds. The situations are similar. I haven't really looked at it, but I get the impression that Reynolds is also quite high handed when he wants to get something done. Hi Anne. Hope all is well with you. No, I've never seen Firefly though I've heard a lot about it. It's the presumption of leadership that is problematic with Blake. It's not that anyone else, even Avon, wants to 'lead' as such, but that Blake claps on about freedom but doesn't allow any discussion at all. So much for democracy. Blake made it clear that anyone who wanted to leave was very welcome to, he never forced them to stay. |
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| Obsidian |
Posted on 21-01-2023 09:56
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Moderator Posts: 8903 Joined: 15.01.22 |
Blake and Jenna are holding handy pandys. We just don't have enough B7 emojis to express what I feel about that. We definitely don't. An equivalent of this one 🤮 – and we know who that's going to be – is sorely needed. Don't philosophise at me you electronic moron.
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| Obsidian |
Posted on 21-01-2023 09:57
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Moderator Posts: 8903 Joined: 15.01.22 |
Do you know Firefly, Obsidian? It would be interesting to compare Blake's leadership style with that of Malcolm Reynolds. The situations are similar. I haven't really looked at it, but I get the impression that Reynolds is also quite high handed when he wants to get something done. Hi Anne. Hope all is well with you. No, I've never seen Firefly though I've heard a lot about it. It's the presumption of leadership that is problematic with Blake. It's not that anyone else, even Avon, wants to 'lead' as such, but that Blake claps on about freedom but doesn't allow any discussion at all. So much for democracy. Blake made it clear that anyone who wanted to leave was very welcome to, he never forced them to stay. It's not about staying, it's about having a say; otherwise it's a dictatorship. Don't philosophise at me you electronic moron.
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| AnneArthur |
Posted on 21-01-2023 09:57
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 Alpha Grade Posts: 8721 Joined: 16.01.22 |
Do you know Firefly, Obsidian? It would be interesting to compare Blake's leadership style with that of Malcolm Reynolds. The situations are similar. I haven't really looked at it, but I get the impression that Reynolds is also quite high handed when he wants to get something done. Hi Anne. Hope all is well with you. No, I've never seen Firefly though I've heard a lot about it. It's the presumption of leadership that is problematic with Blake. It's not that anyone else, even Avon, wants to 'lead' as such, but that Blake claps on about freedom but doesn't allow any discussion at all. So much for democracy. Reynolds does allow some discussion, but when he want something done shuts it down with 'this isn't a democracy'. But then he isn't pretending to be an idealist (although he is one, really) - whereas you might think that Blake is the reverse. |
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| M1795537OCVirn |
Posted on 21-01-2023 09:58
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 Admin  Posts: 15915 Joined: 14.01.22 |
Do you know Firefly, Obsidian? It would be interesting to compare Blake's leadership style with that of Malcolm Reynolds. The situations are similar. I haven't really looked at it, but I get the impression that Reynolds is also quite high handed when he wants to get something done. Hi Anne. Hope all is well with you. No, I've never seen Firefly though I've heard a lot about it. It's the presumption of leadership that is problematic with Blake. It's not that anyone else, even Avon, wants to 'lead' as such, but that Blake claps on about freedom but doesn't allow any discussion at all. So much for democracy. Blake made it clear that anyone who wanted to leave was very welcome to, he never forced them to stay. But where else would they go? Leaving Blake with all that loot as well as the ship? I don't think so. Also, Blake is so concerned with his 'cause' that he doesn't often pause near enough to somewhere civilised to let them off. Edited by M1795537OCVirn on 21-01-2023 10:01 "You're not sulking, I hope?"
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| Obsidian |
Posted on 21-01-2023 09:58
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Moderator Posts: 8903 Joined: 15.01.22 |
Errrggh! Yes, Vila. It's horrible styrofoam.
Don't philosophise at me you electronic moron.
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| Obsidian |
Posted on 21-01-2023 10:00
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Moderator Posts: 8903 Joined: 15.01.22 |
Do you know Firefly, Obsidian? It would be interesting to compare Blake's leadership style with that of Malcolm Reynolds. The situations are similar. I haven't really looked at it, but I get the impression that Reynolds is also quite high handed when he wants to get something done. Hi Anne. Hope all is well with you. No, I've never seen Firefly though I've heard a lot about it. It's the presumption of leadership that is problematic with Blake. It's not that anyone else, even Avon, wants to 'lead' as such, but that Blake claps on about freedom but doesn't allow any discussion at all. So much for democracy. Blake made it clear that anyone who wanted to leave was very welcome to, he never forced them to stay. But where else would they go? Leaving Blake with all that loot as well as the ship? I don't think so. Also, Blake is so concerned with his 'cause' that doesn't often pause near enough to somewhere civilised to let them off. Blake's full of bombast anyway. He knows he can't do it alone. Edited by Obsidian on 21-01-2023 10:01 Don't philosophise at me you electronic moron.
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| AnneArthur |
Posted on 21-01-2023 10:00
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Alpha Grade Posts: 8721 Joined: 16.01.22 |
Do you know Firefly, Obsidian? It would be interesting to compare Blake's leadership style with that of Malcolm Reynolds. The situations are similar. I haven't really looked at it, but I get the impression that Reynolds is also quite high handed when he wants to get something done. Hi Anne. Hope all is well with you. No, I've never seen Firefly though I've heard a lot about it. It's the presumption of leadership that is problematic with Blake. It's not that anyone else, even Avon, wants to 'lead' as such, but that Blake claps on about freedom but doesn't allow any discussion at all. So much for democracy. Blake made it clear that anyone who wanted to leave was very welcome to, he never forced them to stay. It's not about staying, it's about having a say; otherwise it's a dictatorship. Or it's a ship's crew. In space/at sea, emergencies tend to arise where there isn't time for a mature discussion of the options - a chain of command is essential. And Avon ends up getting equally dictatorial - it's the nature of the beast. |
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| M1795537OCVirn |
Posted on 21-01-2023 10:05
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Admin Posts: 15915 Joined: 14.01.22 |
On this leadership issue (can't be bothered filling the thread with quotes) is it a power corrupts thing, or that Blake sees his opportunity and the rest are onlookers (except when he can use them), and with Avon, his increasing mental problems were what made him beome more dictatorial? "You're not sulking, I hope?"
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| Obsidian |
Posted on 21-01-2023 10:05
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Moderator Posts: 8903 Joined: 15.01.22 |
Do you know Firefly, Obsidian? It would be interesting to compare Blake's leadership style with that of Malcolm Reynolds. The situations are similar. I haven't really looked at it, but I get the impression that Reynolds is also quite high handed when he wants to get something done. Hi Anne. Hope all is well with you. No, I've never seen Firefly though I've heard a lot about it. It's the presumption of leadership that is problematic with Blake. It's not that anyone else, even Avon, wants to 'lead' as such, but that Blake claps on about freedom but doesn't allow any discussion at all. So much for democracy. Blake made it clear that anyone who wanted to leave was very welcome to, he never forced them to stay. It's not about staying, it's about having a say; otherwise it's a dictatorship. Or it's a ship's crew. In space/at sea, emergencies tend to arise where there isn't time for a mature discussion of the options - a chain of command is essential. And Avon ends up getting equally dictatorial - it's the nature of the beast. The whole point about this is that they are ostensibly eschewing the military because the military is not an ideal model. And what Avon gets like irrelevant as he's not blithering about freedom in one breath and then behaving like a dictator in the next. It's Blake's hypocrisy that is galling. Don't philosophise at me you electronic moron.
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| Tyce |
Posted on 21-01-2023 10:06
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Alpha Grade Posts: 3207 Joined: 16.01.22 |
Do you know Firefly, Obsidian? It would be interesting to compare Blake's leadership style with that of Malcolm Reynolds. The situations are similar. I haven't really looked at it, but I get the impression that Reynolds is also quite high handed when he wants to get something done. Hi Anne. Hope all is well with you. No, I've never seen Firefly though I've heard a lot about it. It's the presumption of leadership that is problematic with Blake. It's not that anyone else, even Avon, wants to 'lead' as such, but that Blake claps on about freedom but doesn't allow any discussion at all. So much for democracy. Blake made it clear that anyone who wanted to leave was very welcome to, he never forced them to stay. But where else would they go? Leaving Blake with all that loot as well as the ship? I don't think so. Also, Blake is so concerned with his 'cause' that doesn't often pause near enough to somewhere civilised to let them off. Well, ultimately, why shouldn’t Blake have the ship? Gan and Villa were only invited aboard. And if there was a vote between Blake, Avon and Jenna, Jenna would vote with Blake. Besides, it was Blake, who defeated the Liberator defence system in Space Fall. They all would be dead, without his abilities to “recognise dreams”. |
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| Obsidian |
Posted on 21-01-2023 10:07
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Moderator Posts: 8903 Joined: 15.01.22 |
Glad the maracas have arrived. Meanwhile, wondering how the craft ended up in a cradle. Did Zen do that?
Don't philosophise at me you electronic moron.
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| Obsidian |
Posted on 21-01-2023 10:07
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Moderator Posts: 8903 Joined: 15.01.22 |
Do you know Firefly, Obsidian? It would be interesting to compare Blake's leadership style with that of Malcolm Reynolds. The situations are similar. I haven't really looked at it, but I get the impression that Reynolds is also quite high handed when he wants to get something done. Hi Anne. Hope all is well with you. No, I've never seen Firefly though I've heard a lot about it. It's the presumption of leadership that is problematic with Blake. It's not that anyone else, even Avon, wants to 'lead' as such, but that Blake claps on about freedom but doesn't allow any discussion at all. So much for democracy. Blake made it clear that anyone who wanted to leave was very welcome to, he never forced them to stay. But where else would they go? Leaving Blake with all that loot as well as the ship? I don't think so. Also, Blake is so concerned with his 'cause' that doesn't often pause near enough to somewhere civilised to let them off. Well, ultimately, why shouldn’t Blake have the ship? Gan and Villa were only invited aboard. And if there was a vote between Blake, Avon and Jenna, Jenna would vote with Blake. Besides, it was Blake, who defeated the Liberator defence system in Space Fall. They all would be dead, without his abilities to “recognise dreams”. The end does not justify the means. Don't philosophise at me you electronic moron.
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| Obsidian |
Posted on 21-01-2023 10:08
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Moderator Posts: 8903 Joined: 15.01.22 |
Cally's best outfit. Wonder where it went?
Don't philosophise at me you electronic moron.
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| Tyce |
Posted on 21-01-2023 10:09
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Alpha Grade Posts: 3207 Joined: 16.01.22 |
Do you know Firefly, Obsidian? It would be interesting to compare Blake's leadership style with that of Malcolm Reynolds. The situations are similar. I haven't really looked at it, but I get the impression that Reynolds is also quite high handed when he wants to get something done. Hi Anne. Hope all is well with you. No, I've never seen Firefly though I've heard a lot about it. It's the presumption of leadership that is problematic with Blake. It's not that anyone else, even Avon, wants to 'lead' as such, but that Blake claps on about freedom but doesn't allow any discussion at all. So much for democracy. Blake made it clear that anyone who wanted to leave was very welcome to, he never forced them to stay. It's not about staying, it's about having a say; otherwise it's a dictatorship. Or it's a ship's crew. In space/at sea, emergencies tend to arise where there isn't time for a mature discussion of the options - a chain of command is essential. And Avon ends up getting equally dictatorial - it's the nature of the beast. The whole point about this is that they are ostensibly eschewing the military because the military is not an ideal model. And what Avon gets like irrelevant as he's not blithering about freedom in one breath and then behaving like a dictator in the next. It's Blake's hypocrisy that is galling. Considering the circumstances, I don’t think freedom is about democracy it’s about destroying the enemy, so you can stay alive. |
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| AnneArthur |
Posted on 21-01-2023 10:09
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Alpha Grade Posts: 8721 Joined: 16.01.22 |
Do you know Firefly, Obsidian? It would be interesting to compare Blake's leadership style with that of Malcolm Reynolds. The situations are similar. I haven't really looked at it, but I get the impression that Reynolds is also quite high handed when he wants to get something done. Hi Anne. Hope all is well with you. No, I've never seen Firefly though I've heard a lot about it. It's the presumption of leadership that is problematic with Blake. It's not that anyone else, even Avon, wants to 'lead' as such, but that Blake claps on about freedom but doesn't allow any discussion at all. So much for democracy. Blake made it clear that anyone who wanted to leave was very welcome to, he never forced them to stay. It's not about staying, it's about having a say; otherwise it's a dictatorship. Or it's a ship's crew. In space/at sea, emergencies tend to arise where there isn't time for a mature discussion of the options - a chain of command is essential. And Avon ends up getting equally dictatorial - it's the nature of the beast. The whole point about this is that they are ostensibly eschewing the military because the military is not an ideal model. And what Avon gets like irrelevant as he's not blithering about freedom in one breath and then behaving like a dictator in the next. It's Blake's hypocrisy that is galling. No - when he attempts to override the mission to Auron to try to save Cally's people from the plague, in favour of his own mission of revenge for darling Anna, he's just behaving like a selfish antisocial *****. Who would not prefer to be led by such a person? Edited by Obsidian on 22-01-2023 07:11 |
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| Obsidian |
Posted on 21-01-2023 10:10
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Moderator Posts: 8903 Joined: 15.01.22 |
Cally's best snarky character too.
Don't philosophise at me you electronic moron.
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| M1795537OCVirn |
Posted on 21-01-2023 10:10
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Admin Posts: 15915 Joined: 14.01.22 |
Cally's best outfit. Wonder where it went? Either destroyed aboard the Liberator when it went bang, or Costumes had so much trouble getting all the chalk dust out they gave up and recycled it into something esle. "You're not sulking, I hope?"
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| AnneArthur |
Posted on 21-01-2023 10:11
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Alpha Grade Posts: 8721 Joined: 16.01.22 |
Do you know Firefly, Obsidian? It would be interesting to compare Blake's leadership style with that of Malcolm Reynolds. The situations are similar. I haven't really looked at it, but I get the impression that Reynolds is also quite high handed when he wants to get something done. Hi Anne. Hope all is well with you. No, I've never seen Firefly though I've heard a lot about it. It's the presumption of leadership that is problematic with Blake. It's not that anyone else, even Avon, wants to 'lead' as such, but that Blake claps on about freedom but doesn't allow any discussion at all. So much for democracy. Blake made it clear that anyone who wanted to leave was very welcome to, he never forced them to stay. It's not about staying, it's about having a say; otherwise it's a dictatorship. Or it's a ship's crew. In space/at sea, emergencies tend to arise where there isn't time for a mature discussion of the options - a chain of command is essential. And Avon ends up getting equally dictatorial - it's the nature of the beast. The whole point about this is that they are ostensibly eschewing the military because the military is not an ideal model. And what Avon gets like irrelevant as he's not blithering about freedom in one breath and then behaving like a dictator in the next. It's Blake's hypocrisy that is galling. Considering the circumstances, I don’t think freedom is about democracy it’s about destroying the enemy, so you can stay alive. I would agree - at least up to a point. And in a dangerous situation, you do need someone in charge. |
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| M1795537OCVirn |
Posted on 21-01-2023 10:11
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Admin Posts: 15915 Joined: 14.01.22 |
Seriously, enough with all the re-quotes. Some poor soul might be trying to follow this on their phone.
"You're not sulking, I hope?"
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| AnneArthur |
Posted on 21-01-2023 10:14
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Alpha Grade Posts: 8721 Joined: 16.01.22 |
Sorry  See, I'm not re-quoting here. |
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| Tyce |
Posted on 21-01-2023 10:14
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Alpha Grade Posts: 3207 Joined: 16.01.22 |
Seriously, enough with all the re-quotes. Some poor soul might be trying to follow this on their phone. LO Yep, I’m one of those poor souls. LOL |
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| M1795537OCVirn |
Posted on 21-01-2023 10:15
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Admin Posts: 15915 Joined: 14.01.22 |
Thank you. Sorry for being dictatorial (a bit). Maybe it's infectious.
"You're not sulking, I hope?"
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| M1795537OCVirn |
Posted on 21-01-2023 10:16
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Admin Posts: 15915 Joined: 14.01.22 |
Seriously, enough with all the re-quotes. Some poor soul might be trying to follow this on their phone. LO Yep, I’m one of those poor souls. LOL  The Federation exists to serve its citizens.
"You're not sulking, I hope?"
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| Obsidian |
Posted on 21-01-2023 10:17
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Moderator Posts: 8903 Joined: 15.01.22 |
Do you know Firefly, Obsidian? It would be interesting to compare Blake's leadership style with that of Malcolm Reynolds. The situations are similar. I haven't really looked at it, but I get the impression that Reynolds is also quite high handed when he wants to get something done. Hi Anne. Hope all is well with you. No, I've never seen Firefly though I've heard a lot about it. It's the presumption of leadership that is problematic with Blake. It's not that anyone else, even Avon, wants to 'lead' as such, but that Blake claps on about freedom but doesn't allow any discussion at all. So much for democracy. Blake made it clear that anyone who wanted to leave was very welcome to, he never forced them to stay. It's not about staying, it's about having a say; otherwise it's a dictatorship. Or it's a ship's crew. In space/at sea, emergencies tend to arise where there isn't time for a mature discussion of the options - a chain of command is essential. And Avon ends up getting equally dictatorial - it's the nature of the beast. The whole point about this is that they are ostensibly eschewing the military because the military is not an ideal model. And what Avon gets like irrelevant as he's not blithering about freedom in one breath and then behaving like a dictator in the next. It's Blake's hypocrisy that is galling. No - when he attempts to override the mission to Auron to try to save Cally's people from the plague, in favour of his own mission of revenge for darling Anna, he's just behaving like a selfish antisocial *****. Who would not prefer to be led by such a person? He's not pretending to be anything else, unlike Blake. This is only about the presumption of leadership, nothing else. Blake's presuming it, without first consulting, is the problem. His assuming that everyone will always do what he wants is dictatorial. His sense of revenge is over-riding anything anyone else might think or want. They may all be glad to be there but that doesn't necessarily mean they should always go along with what Blake says. Simples, as the little meercat says. Edited by Obsidian on 22-01-2023 07:12 Don't philosophise at me you electronic moron.
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| Obsidian |
Posted on 21-01-2023 10:18
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Moderator Posts: 8903 Joined: 15.01.22 |
Thank you. Sorry for being dictatorial (a bit). Maybe it's infectious. Good for your thumb muscles. 
Don't philosophise at me you electronic moron.
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| Obsidian |
Posted on 21-01-2023 10:19
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Moderator Posts: 8903 Joined: 15.01.22 |
I love the really old lock that Vila unlocks. Find myself going "Is it a Yale?"
Don't philosophise at me you electronic moron.
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| M1795537OCVirn |
Posted on 21-01-2023 10:21
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Admin Posts: 15915 Joined: 14.01.22 |
GREAT SLOW FIGHTING!
"You're not sulking, I hope?"
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| Obsidian |
Posted on 21-01-2023 10:21
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Moderator Posts: 8903 Joined: 15.01.22 |
Cally's best outfit. Wonder where it went? Either destroyed aboard the Liberator when it went bang, or Costumes had so much trouble getting all the chalk dust out they gave up and recycled it into something esle. Yeah, Gary Holland has no idea where that one went. Don't philosophise at me you electronic moron.
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| Obsidian |
Posted on 21-01-2023 10:22
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Moderator Posts: 8903 Joined: 15.01.22 |
GREAT SLOW FIGHTING! Imagine fighting in those stupid sandals. Don't philosophise at me you electronic moron.
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| Tyce |
Posted on 21-01-2023 10:22
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Alpha Grade Posts: 3207 Joined: 16.01.22 |
He's not pretending to be anything else, unlike Blake. This is only about the presumption of leadership, nothing else. Blake's presuming it, without first consulting, is the problem. His assuming that everyone will always do what he wants is dictatorial. His sense of revenge is over-riding anything anyone else might think or want. They may all be glad to be there but that doesn't necessarily mean they should always go along with what Blake says. Simples, as the little meercat says. Completely disagree. However, in the name of not having more quotes on quotes on quotes, I’ll leave it at that. |
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| AnneArthur |
Posted on 21-01-2023 10:23
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Alpha Grade Posts: 8721 Joined: 16.01.22 |
To answer your point about Blake, though, Ms Virn, I think Blake quickly sees that if he allows discussion it will be infinite - especially if Avon is involved, as he is clearly a contrarian who will attempt to argue that balck is white on even the most minor of issues. So he simply takes charge. Not democratic, but efficient. At the beginning of series 3, I think that Avon is determined not to do it like that - but he's a natural loner and critc, not a leader, and the result, a few episodes in (the Harvest of Kairos is a good example), is that he seems to spend his time sulking and being passive-agressive with Tarrant, who is seriously pissed off with this. (My take on Tarrant is that he is ex-military, he is used to a chain of command and is, I think, slightly frightened without one. He tries to take charge himself, but the crew don't really know him, and Avon, the dog in the manger, frustrates his attempts). When Avon sorts himself out and realises that he does have to actually lead (and that Blake was not as wrong as he always thought (not that he will ever tell Blake that)) things improve a lot, and Tarrant stops being a nuisance and settles down as a mostly reliable second in command. Then Avon goes mad, but that is another story! [mail][/mail] |
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| M1795537OCVirn |
Posted on 21-01-2023 10:23
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Admin Posts: 15915 Joined: 14.01.22 |
What's actually supposed to be wrong with Gan that he has to haul himself about like that?
"You're not sulking, I hope?"
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| Tyce |
Posted on 21-01-2023 10:28
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Alpha Grade Posts: 3207 Joined: 16.01.22 |
I was so busy being part of the discussion, that I think I just forgot to watch the episode, LOL might have to go and do that now….. :-) |
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| Obsidian |
Posted on 21-01-2023 10:30
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Moderator Posts: 8903 Joined: 15.01.22 |
What's actually supposed to be wrong with Gan that he has to haul himself about like that? He got it from a a plywood forked Zulfikar? Don't philosophise at me you electronic moron.
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| M1795537OCVirn |
Posted on 21-01-2023 10:30
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Admin Posts: 15915 Joined: 14.01.22 |
Thank you for your observations, Anne. I agree with you about Tarrant, adding only that he's completely out of his depth with most things, either ships or people. Comes of having an Alpha upbringing at boarding school/Academy etc. Blake is, as you say, quick to assess the others (accurately) and tailor his response appopriately. Plus he is an idiot. And somewhat brain-damaged after all the 're-education' he's had. Ialso agree with much of what you say about Avon, but I'm not convinced about his interaction with Blake. I think Paul took his character further than the script anticipated, and Blake didn't keep up. "You're not sulking, I hope?"
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| AnneArthur |
Posted on 21-01-2023 10:31
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Alpha Grade Posts: 8721 Joined: 16.01.22 |
That was annoying. The DVD suddenly froze, then started jumping around. I hope it isn't damaged. |
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| M1795537OCVirn |
Posted on 21-01-2023 10:33
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Admin Posts: 15915 Joined: 14.01.22 |
That was annoying. The DVD suddenly froze, then started jumping around. I hope it isn't damaged. Another situation for which there is no appropriate emoji. I sympathise. "You're not sulking, I hope?"
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| M1795537OCVirn |
Posted on 21-01-2023 10:34
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Admin Posts: 15915 Joined: 14.01.22 |
I was so busy being part of the discussion, that I think I just forgot to watch the episode, LOL might have to go and do that now….. :-) ha ha ha "You're not sulking, I hope?"
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