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Rewatch Downunder Saturday 20th January A3 CYGNUS ALPHA
AnneArthur

M1795537OCVirn wrote: ↑

AnneArthur wrote: ↑

Blake, like the Minbari, never tells anyone the whole truth. And he's starting early.


Everyone else around him is a convicted criminal. He's innocent, so he's being careful.


And he wants to bring the others back, so he neglects to mention the heavies.
 
AnneArthur

Obsidian wrote: ↑

AnneArthur wrote: ↑

Blake, like the Minbari, never tells anyone the whole truth. And he's starting early.


Very. He doesn't consider anyone else significant enough to confide in. My way or the highway. Like many a TV evangelist.


Although Avon is also being less than candid. I think we know that at this point he has already killed someone - as has Jenna, who asks the question.
 
Obsidian

AnneArthur wrote: ↑

M1795537OCVirn wrote: ↑

Cygnus is the system's star. Alpha is its primary planet, Jenna, Blake could not have landed on the surface of Cygnus.


If there is only one habitable planet, it would not be unreasonable to refer to it by the name of the star. And in any case, Cygnus is a constellation, with many stars. Cygnus Alpha should be the brightest star, Deneb - but I think Blakes 7 fanlore decides that this can't be a planet orbiting Deneb, as it is too far from Earth.


It would have to be a more recently discovered system as Deneb, like most bright stars, has a medieval Arabic name. This planet seems to be intentionally isolated from others.
Don't philosophise at me you electronic moron.
 
https://www.seraglio-design.com/
M1795537OCVirn
Cygnus, seen from Earth, is a constellation, not a star. I'm assuming by the time Blake & co get there the area has been further explored and the name pinned to a particular star and its system. 'Alpha' suggests there are other planets, is all I'm saying.
"You're not sulking, I hope?"
 
AnneArthur

Obsidian wrote: ↑

AnneArthur wrote: ↑

M1795537OCVirn wrote: ↑

Cygnus is the system's star. Alpha is its primary planet, Jenna, Blake could not have landed on the surface of Cygnus.


If there is only one habitable planet, it would not be unreasonable to refer to it by the name of the star. And in any case, Cygnus is a constellation, with many stars. Cygnus Alpha should be the brightest star, Deneb - but I think Blakes 7 fanlore decides that this can't be a planet orbiting Deneb, as it is too far from Earth.


It would have to be a more recently discovered system as Deneb, like most bright stars, has a medieval Arabic name. This planet seems to be intentionally isolated from others.


Yes, I was googling it. Deneb is from the Arabic word for tail - but the Arabs thought the tail of a hen, whereas to us it's a swan. It was at one point called Rosamund in German, and also the parson's nose.

This planet might be orbiting another star in Cygnus - perhaps Cygnus Alpha because the first colony in Cygnus?
 
Obsidian

AnneArthur wrote: ↑

Obsidian wrote: ↑

AnneArthur wrote: ↑

Blake, like the Minbari, never tells anyone the whole truth. And he's starting early.


Very. He doesn't consider anyone else significant enough to confide in. My way or the highway. Like many a TV evangelist.


Although Avon is also being less than candid. I think we know that at this point he has already killed someone - as has Jenna, who asks the question.


They are all testing out each other. There is quite a degree of coyness in their interactions. AFter all, who divulges everything about oneself on first being flung together with people? But Blake is assuming a position of "rightness" that he takes for granted supersedes anyone else's aims. He's even doing it right now with Vargas.
Don't philosophise at me you electronic moron.
 
https://www.seraglio-design.com/
Tyce
Sorry people, I just fell asleep!! It’s been a very long horrible week. This is the first time I’ve sat down to relax - and I think my body took the relaxing way too seriously.
 
M1795537OCVirn
And there you have it. Avon says it exactly how it is. They will never have the same chance again. And they will get dragged into Blake's crusade. It's all Jenna's fault.
"You're not sulking, I hope?"
 
AnneArthur
One of the things I like about Babylon 5 is that it has several episodes exploring religion, bad and good, without succumbing to the megalomaniac-with-a-personality-cult-cliche.
 
Obsidian

AnneArthur wrote: ↑

Obsidian wrote: ↑

AnneArthur wrote: ↑

M1795537OCVirn wrote: ↑

Cygnus is the system's star. Alpha is its primary planet, Jenna, Blake could not have landed on the surface of Cygnus.


If there is only one habitable planet, it would not be unreasonable to refer to it by the name of the star. And in any case, Cygnus is a constellation, with many stars. Cygnus Alpha should be the brightest star, Deneb - but I think Blakes 7 fanlore decides that this can't be a planet orbiting Deneb, as it is too far from Earth.


It would have to be a more recently discovered system as Deneb, like most bright stars, has a medieval Arabic name. This planet seems to be intentionally isolated from others.


Yes, I was googling it. Deneb is from the Arabic word for tail - but the Arabs thought the tail of a hen, whereas to us it's a swan. It was at one point called Rosamund in German, and also the parson's nose.

This planet might be orbiting another star in Cygnus - perhaps Cygnus Alpha because the first colony in Cygnus?


Possibly. It's still isolated, otherwise, why make it a prison planet? Cygnus Beta, should it exist, is nowhere nearby. But, as we know, stars in a constellation are nowhere near each other, they only look like that in two dimensions.
Don't philosophise at me you electronic moron.
 
https://www.seraglio-design.com/
Tyce

Obsidian wrote: ↑

Someone on Cygnus is stitching hooded cloaks.

Ha ha.
 
AnneArthur

Tyce wrote: ↑

Sorry people, I just fell asleep!! It’s been a very long horrible week. This is the first time I’ve sat down to relax - and I think my body took the relaxing way too seriously.


You obviously needed it. I hope you are feeling more rested.
 
M1795537OCVirn

Tyce wrote: ↑

Sorry people, I just fell asleep!! It’s been a very long horrible week. This is the first time I’ve sat down to relax - and I think my body took the relaxing way too seriously.


I think you can be forgiven. After all, this is the 46th time around.
"You're not sulking, I hope?"
 
Tyce

AnneArthur wrote: ↑

Tyce wrote: ↑

They only release the prisoners once they’ve taken off. What happens if something goes wrong with the release mechanism??

They make the next lot of prisoners clear away the bodies?

Yes exactly.
Edited by Tyce on 20-01-2024 10:24
 
AnneArthur
Ah, torture. Frankly, at this stage, we were all expecting the Spanish Inquisition.
 
M1795537OCVirn
They have organised a choir there, I see.
"You're not sulking, I hope?"
 
Obsidian

Tyce wrote: ↑

Sorry people, I just fell asleep!! It’s been a very long horrible week. This is the first time I’ve sat down to relax - and I think my body took the relaxing way too seriously.


Perfectly understandable. I had a week which started with 3 days-worth of migraine. Woke this afternoon (late night) thinking it was Sunday and I'd missed the rewatch.GrinGrinGrin
Don't philosophise at me you electronic moron.
 
https://www.seraglio-design.com/
Obsidian

AnneArthur wrote: ↑

Ah, torture. Frankly, at this stage, we were all expecting the Spanish Inquisition.


But that's the thing: NOBODY expects the Spanish Inquisition.
Don't philosophise at me you electronic moron.
 
https://www.seraglio-design.com/
AnneArthur

Obsidian wrote: ↑

Tyce wrote: ↑

Sorry people, I just fell asleep!! It’s been a very long horrible week. This is the first time I’ve sat down to relax - and I think my body took the relaxing way too seriously.


Perfectly understandable. I had a week which started with 3 days-worth of migraine. Woke this afternoon (late night) thinking it was Sunday and I'd missed the rewatch.GrinGrinGrin


Oh that is horrible!
 
AnneArthur

Obsidian wrote: ↑

AnneArthur wrote: ↑

Ah, torture. Frankly, at this stage, we were all expecting the Spanish Inquisition.


But that's the thing: NOBODY expects the Spanish Inquisition.


I did, and I'm pretty sure Blake did.
 
Obsidian

M1795537OCVirn wrote: ↑

And there you have it. Avon says it exactly how it is. They will never have the same chance again. And they will get dragged into Blake's crusade. It's all Jenna's fault.


Like far too many people, willing to give away their integrity for a pocketful of mumbles such are promises (as those prophets Simon and Garfunkel put it).
Don't philosophise at me you electronic moron.
 
https://www.seraglio-design.com/
Obsidian
The interesting thing about all the prisoners moaning and groaning is the power of suggestion. Like people on a ship: they see someone with sea-sickness and they all get it.
Don't philosophise at me you electronic moron.
 
https://www.seraglio-design.com/
AnneArthur
And human sacrifice. Cliche upon cliche.
 
Obsidian
I do like Vargas' robes.
Don't philosophise at me you electronic moron.
 
https://www.seraglio-design.com/
Obsidian

AnneArthur wrote: ↑

And human sacrifice. Cliche upon cliche.


I actually don't think it's too far from how a lot of people behave. It doesn't take much. Our governments do it all the time on little to no pretext.
Don't philosophise at me you electronic moron.
 
https://www.seraglio-design.com/
M1795537OCVirn

AnneArthur wrote: ↑

And human sacrifice. Cliche upon cliche.


But it works for Vargas and friends. I wonder if V was the first to set up the sickness thing or if he inherited the secret from someone else?
"You're not sulking, I hope?"
 
AnneArthur

Obsidian wrote: ↑

AnneArthur wrote: ↑

And human sacrifice. Cliche upon cliche.


I actually don't think it's too far from how a lot of people behave. It doesn't take much. Our governments do it all the time on little to no pretext.


Ritual human sacrifice?
 
Tyce
Fabulous rewatch, fabulous company, but now I really have to go to bed. Good night everyone.
 
Obsidian

M1795537OCVirn wrote: ↑

AnneArthur wrote: ↑

And human sacrifice. Cliche upon cliche.


But it works for Vargas and friends. I wonder if V was the first to set up the sickness thing or if he inherited the secret from someone else?


My feeling is that it was a good lark that had been tried before but that he grew into the role of applying it as a matter-of-course.
Don't philosophise at me you electronic moron.
 
https://www.seraglio-design.com/
M1795537OCVirn

AnneArthur wrote: ↑

Obsidian wrote: ↑

AnneArthur wrote: ↑

And human sacrifice. Cliche upon cliche.


I actually don't think it's too far from how a lot of people behave. It doesn't take much. Our governments do it all the time on little to no pretext.


Ritual human sacrifice?


Maybe it's the robes. Once they're wearing them, people suddenly start singing Gregorian chants, offering scrifices etc.
"You're not sulking, I hope?"
 
Obsidian

AnneArthur wrote: ↑

Obsidian wrote: ↑

AnneArthur wrote: ↑

And human sacrifice. Cliche upon cliche.


I actually don't think it's too far from how a lot of people behave. It doesn't take much. Our governments do it all the time on little to no pretext.


Ritual human sacrifice?


Indeed! To their ideologies.
Don't philosophise at me you electronic moron.
 
https://www.seraglio-design.com/
AnneArthur

M1795537OCVirn wrote: ↑

AnneArthur wrote: ↑

And human sacrifice. Cliche upon cliche.


But it works for Vargas and friends. I wonder if V was the first to set up the sickness thing or if he inherited the secret from someone else?


I think the sickness is probably genuine - it might be related to the three-day sweats mentioned in Killer. But it is just a natural reaction to space travel/something in the planet's environment, and it passes quickly.
 
AnneArthur

Obsidian wrote: ↑

AnneArthur wrote: ↑

Obsidian wrote: ↑

AnneArthur wrote: ↑

And human sacrifice. Cliche upon cliche.


I actually don't think it's too far from how a lot of people behave. It doesn't take much. Our governments do it all the time on little to no pretext.


Ritual human sacrifice?


Indeed! To their ideologies.


What ideologies? I see only a desperation to remain in power here at the moment.
 
Obsidian

M1795537OCVirn wrote: ↑

AnneArthur wrote: ↑

Obsidian wrote: ↑

AnneArthur wrote: ↑

And human sacrifice. Cliche upon cliche.


I actually don't think it's too far from how a lot of people behave. It doesn't take much. Our governments do it all the time on little to no pretext.


Ritual human sacrifice?


Maybe it's the robes. Once they're wearing them, people suddenly start singing Gregorian chants, offering scrifices etc.


Goes with the territory. Humans demonstrate again and again that they are herd animals.
Don't philosophise at me you electronic moron.
 
https://www.seraglio-design.com/
Obsidian

AnneArthur wrote: ↑

Obsidian wrote: ↑

AnneArthur wrote: ↑

Obsidian wrote: ↑

AnneArthur wrote: ↑

And human sacrifice. Cliche upon cliche.


I actually don't think it's too far from how a lot of people behave. It doesn't take much. Our governments do it all the time on little to no pretext.


Ritual human sacrifice?


Indeed! To their ideologies.


What ideologies? I see only a desperation to remain in power here at the moment.


By busily smashing to bits people in other countries, and, should I add: that's all part of convincing you that they are keeping at bay all those wicked people who might challenge your (our) culture. Our pathetic lot are doing it too. Sacrificing others to prove to a domestic market how terrific they are.
Edited by Obsidian on 20-01-2024 10:35
Don't philosophise at me you electronic moron.
 
https://www.seraglio-design.com/
AnneArthur

M1795537OCVirn wrote: ↑

AnneArthur wrote: ↑

Obsidian wrote: ↑

AnneArthur wrote: ↑

And human sacrifice. Cliche upon cliche.


I actually don't think it's too far from how a lot of people behave. It doesn't take much. Our governments do it all the time on little to no pretext.


Ritual human sacrifice?


Maybe it's the robes. Once they're wearing them, people suddenly start singing Gregorian chants, offering scrifices etc.


Well, I suppose that Vargas and his ancestors were from Earth, and were people of limited culture and imagination, so went with all the cliches - the robes, the chanting, the torture, the sacrifices. And it makes for a lively backdrop for the real meat of the episode, which is Blake's attempts to build a crew. But I would still have liked something more interesting.
 
Obsidian

AnneArthur wrote: ↑

M1795537OCVirn wrote: ↑

AnneArthur wrote: ↑

Obsidian wrote: ↑

AnneArthur wrote: ↑

And human sacrifice. Cliche upon cliche.


I actually don't think it's too far from how a lot of people behave. It doesn't take much. Our governments do it all the time on little to no pretext.


Ritual human sacrifice?


Maybe it's the robes. Once they're wearing them, people suddenly start singing Gregorian chants, offering scrifices etc.


Well, I suppose that Vargas and his ancestors were from Earth, and were people of limited culture and imagination, so went with all the cliches - the robes, the chanting, the torture, the sacrifices. And it makes for a lively backdrop for the real meat of the episode, which is Blake's attempts to build a crew. But I would still have liked something more interesting.


Well, as I've noted before, they (Vargas et al.) are curiously cross-cultural in their selection of devices – artefacts – with which they reinforce their claims. They just dragged in all the usual stuff – chanting, sacrifices etc.
Don't philosophise at me you electronic moron.
 
https://www.seraglio-design.com/
AnneArthur

Obsidian wrote: ↑

AnneArthur wrote: ↑

Obsidian wrote: ↑

AnneArthur wrote: ↑

Obsidian wrote: ↑

AnneArthur wrote: ↑

And human sacrifice. Cliche upon cliche.


I actually don't think it's too far from how a lot of people behave. It doesn't take much. Our governments do it all the time on little to no pretext.


Ritual human sacrifice?


Indeed! To their ideologies.


What ideologies? I see only a desperation to remain in power here at the moment.


But busily smashing to bits people in other countries, and, should I add: that's all part of convincing you that they are keeping at bay all those wicked people who might challenge your (our) culture. Our pathetic lot are doing it too. Sacrificing others to prove to a domestic market how terrific they are.


But they are not trying to convince us - we are a lost cause to them. They have found a sizeable minority who can be convinced that their culture is under threat. The rest of us don't need to be convinced, in fact must not be convinced, because we are needed as the internal enemy who are the willing dupes of the external enemy and must be destroyed.
 
M1795537OCVirn

AnneArthur wrote: ↑

M1795537OCVirn wrote: ↑

AnneArthur wrote: ↑

Obsidian wrote: ↑

AnneArthur wrote: ↑

And human sacrifice. Cliche upon cliche.


I actually don't think it's too far from how a lot of people behave. It doesn't take much. Our governments do it all the time on little to no pretext.


Ritual human sacrifice?


Maybe it's the robes. Once they're wearing them, people suddenly start singing Gregorian chants, offering scrifices etc.


Well, I suppose that Vargas and his ancestors were from Earth, and were people of limited culture and imagination, so went with all the cliches - the robes, the chanting, the torture, the sacrifices. And it makes for a lively backdrop for the real meat of the episode, which is Blake's attempts to build a crew. But I would still have liked something more interesting.


Yes, it's all built on stereotypes. But TN was still working on the characterisation: he's trying to make everything fit together ideas, future, budget, and in particular the actors they've cast. One of the strengths of B7 is the way they responded to the strengths of the cast - just a pity that some of them didn't know they could have spoken up a bit more. Plus it was almost half a century ago. We're looking at it with different eyes (I hope) and our sterreotypes are a bit bigger/more rounded/ more cynical.
"You're not sulking, I hope?"
 
AnneArthur
Anyway, that's all getting a bit political, and a bit gloomy - I came here to be cheered up, after all. This will never rank as one of my favourite episodes, but it gets us our crew, and we move on. Thanks for the rewatch, everyone.
 
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