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Rewatch Downunder Saturday 19th September C12 Death-Watch
Obsidian

Joe Dredd wrote: ↑

Obsidian wrote: ↑

Joe Dredd wrote: ↑

Tarrant, Cally, and Dayna's costumes are excellent in this. Avon's outfit is pretty good but for the black pudding storage.


A good description, but I really love the outfit, and all the costumes in this episode. Rocky Knickers was inspired going with the matador theme.


I tend to swing back and forth on it. It doesn't seem like something Avon would choose from the wardrobe room, but it looks okay apart from the big shoulder pieces. We see Avon sitting down later (during the discussion with Max) and we see his boots have enormous soles. They look like something KISS would wear, and Avon looks really stiff in them, as though he can't sit properly because the elevated soles would force his knees up too high. Overall, it doesn't quite come together.

Though, now I reflect on it, both the shoulders and heels give him more stature. Possibly what he wants when going to a planet on a war footing to confront his sick friend, or anyone else he runs across. Like trying to make yourself look bigger if you meet a bear.


I think PD was a much nicer person than any of the members of KISS, but I know what you mean. And quite likely you're right about making yourself bigger. Cats do it to each other too, by fluffing up. Avon is still being the "boss" in this.

But both Deeta and Vinnie sport the high shoulders as well. They're matadors or picadors too.
Don't philosophise at me you electronic moron.
 
https://www.seraglio-design.com/
AnneArthur

Joe Dredd wrote: ↑

Obsidian wrote: ↑

I like Boucher's whole cynicism in this respect; exploring how people are sent to die for politicians.


Also that the idea isn't that great. If you lose, you just start a real war. "Real war, not children's games like all this." In a serious situation - which they'd all have to be - there's no guarantee the decision would be adhered to.


Which rather suggests that the wars are all rather petty border disputes, probably involving the same few planets which are rather resigned to changing hands every few years, Berwick-upon-Tweed style.
 
Joe Dredd

M1795537OCVirn wrote: ↑

I thought the implication was that there'd only be a real war if someone was caught cheating.


That's right, but I can't see it working in real life.
 
Obsidian

AnneArthur wrote: ↑

Joe Dredd wrote: ↑

Obsidian wrote: ↑

I like Boucher's whole cynicism in this respect; exploring how people are sent to die for politicians.


Also that the idea isn't that great. If you lose, you just start a real war. "Real war, not children's games like all this." In a serious situation - which they'd all have to be - there's no guarantee the decision would be adhered to.


Which rather suggests that the wars are all rather petty border disputes, probably involving the same few planets which are rather resigned to changing hands every few years, Berwick-upon-Tweed style.


But the difference this time is that Servalan has seen a chance here, given the state of the Federation. She's doing some empire building.
Don't philosophise at me you electronic moron.
 
https://www.seraglio-design.com/
Joe Dredd
The costumes they run around in are a little outlandish. "Conceal yourself anywhere, use stealth, but wear these bright silver suits."
 
Obsidian

Joe Dredd wrote: ↑

M1795537OCVirn wrote: ↑

I thought the implication was that there'd only be a real war if someone was caught cheating.


That's right, but I can't see it working in real life.


Not when humans are involved.
Don't philosophise at me you electronic moron.
 
https://www.seraglio-design.com/
Joe Dredd

Obsidian wrote: ↑

But the difference this time is that Servalan has seen a chance here, given the state of the Federation. She's doing some empire building.


Servalan is on top of her political game here.
 
Obsidian

Joe Dredd wrote: ↑

The costumes they run around in are a little outlandish. "Conceal yourself anywhere, use stealth, but wear these bright silver suits."



Urban spacemen. It's very Sam Peckinpah.
Don't philosophise at me you electronic moron.
 
https://www.seraglio-design.com/
M1795537OCVirn
Their post-killing discussion is well-written.
"You're not sulking, I hope?"
 
Obsidian

Joe Dredd wrote: ↑

Obsidian wrote: ↑

But the difference this time is that Servalan has seen a chance here, given the state of the Federation. She's doing some empire building.


Servalan is on top of her political game here.


She's immensely pleased with herself.
Don't philosophise at me you electronic moron.
 
https://www.seraglio-design.com/
Obsidian

M1795537OCVirn wrote: ↑

Their post-killing discussion is well-written.


Very. CB is on the top of his game too.

And Vila's still getting some of the best lines.
Don't philosophise at me you electronic moron.
 
https://www.seraglio-design.com/
M1795537OCVirn
Servalan believes Dayna. Finally, she's come up against someone who doesn't have any of those 'scruples' they were talking about.
"You're not sulking, I hope?"
 
Joe Dredd
Vinni is so sure of himself. The actor played the bloke having an affair with another man's wife in another show, and I already didn't like him from this.

- - -

The breathing right at the end when Vinni walks up is so well done. And Tarrant's sudden gulp of air when Dayna rips off the sensor pad.
 
Joe Dredd

Obsidian wrote: ↑

Urban spacemen. It's very Sam Peckinpah.


Or Neil Innes.
 
Obsidian
You're right about the stars, Joe. Do you think it was carelessness or intentional?
Don't philosophise at me you electronic moron.
 
https://www.seraglio-design.com/
Joe Dredd
I think they overlooked it. If all the environments are computer-generated, a spaceship environment would presumably be 'spaceship in flight'. Hopefully they fix it on the Blu-ray.
 
Obsidian

Joe Dredd wrote: ↑

Obsidian wrote: ↑

Urban spacemen. It's very Sam Peckinpah.


Or Neil Innes.


True.

Around the same time, The Professionals were running around in the same warehouse.
Don't philosophise at me you electronic moron.
 
https://www.seraglio-design.com/
Joe Dredd
Actually, maybe it was on purpose. The computer chooses pre-made chambers, not generates them as I was thinking.
 
M1795537OCVirn
Maybe the whole of Teal/Vandor is as naive as Max? That's why they have agreed to this kind of war game. (Plus, it brings on a lot of money for the television people).
"You're not sulking, I hope?"
 
Obsidian

Joe Dredd wrote: ↑

I think they overlooked it. If all the environments are computer-generated, a spaceship environment would presumably be 'spaceship in flight'. Hopefully they fix it on the Blu-ray.


It does seem odd. I'm sure we've all noticed it before but not questioned it. As if it carries a some sort of 'black night' meaning. And no apologies to Deep Purple.
Don't philosophise at me you electronic moron.
 
https://www.seraglio-design.com/
Joe Dredd

Obsidian wrote: ↑

Around the same time, The Professionals were running around in the same warehouse.


Yes, I have to admit I always think of them when they show the shot of the sky through the roofless beams.
 
Joe Dredd
"As ever, Dayna, gaudy but effective." - Tarrant uses the 'gaudy but effective' line in an earlier episode.
 
AnneArthur
I tend to feel that technically the Vinni android should be quick enough to turn round and kill Tarrant at the end, but perhaps it isn't quite that superhuman.

But an excellent episode - sparkling script, great performances, good all round.
 
Obsidian

M1795537OCVirn wrote: ↑

Maybe the whole of Teal/Vandor is as naive as Max? That's why they have agreed to this kind of war game. (Plus, it brings on a lot of money for the television people).


Quite possibly. They probably watch The Block, I'm a Celebrity, Get Me Out Of Here, First Dates, Farmer Wants a Wife, etc., too.
Don't philosophise at me you electronic moron.
 
https://www.seraglio-design.com/
M1795537OCVirn
OK, folks, I need to leave you to natter - my weekend guest is demanding a continuation of an from a previous visit unfinished board game (she took a photo of the board, and is resetting it all as we speak). Hope you have a great week!
"You're not sulking, I hope?"
 
Obsidian

Joe Dredd wrote: ↑

"As ever, Dayna, gaudy but effective." - Tarrant uses the 'gaudy but effective' line in an earlier episode.


Hence the "as ever".
Don't philosophise at me you electronic moron.
 
https://www.seraglio-design.com/
Joe Dredd
Such a great ending - "You are now the First Champion of Teal" and then the simultaneous call to be teleported out of there.
 
AnneArthur

M1795537OCVirn wrote: ↑

OK, folks, I need to leave you to natter - my weekend guest is demanding a continuation of an from a previous visit unfinished board game (she took a photo of the board, and is resetting it all as we speak). Hope you have a great week!


Have a good week, Ms Virn! Good luck with the board game.
 
AnneArthur
OK - that was fun. Hope to see you all next week.
 
Joe Dredd

AnneArthur wrote: ↑

I tend to feel that technically the Vinni android should be quick enough to turn round and kill Tarrant at the end, but perhaps it isn't quite that superhuman.


I think that's why Tarrant lies down, but yes, Vinni's reaction should have been faster (but then, perhaps too when Deeta holsters his gun and speaks to Vinni.)
 
Obsidian

AnneArthur wrote: ↑

I tend to feel that technically the Vinni android should be quick enough to turn round and kill Tarrant at the end, but perhaps it isn't quite that superhuman.

But an excellent episode - sparkling script, great performances, good all round.


That it doesn't sense Tarrant is the one little quibble, but it is a satisfying outcome nonetheless. And as you say, an excellent episode. It does seem to drive the story forward a bit as well. I find myself asking, what will Servalan do next?
Don't philosophise at me you electronic moron.
 
https://www.seraglio-design.com/
Obsidian

Joe Dredd wrote: ↑

Such a great ending - "You are now the First Champion of Teal" and then the simultaneous call to be teleported out of there.


"Exit, stage left".
Don't philosophise at me you electronic moron.
 
https://www.seraglio-design.com/
Obsidian

Joe Dredd wrote: ↑

AnneArthur wrote: ↑

I tend to feel that technically the Vinni android should be quick enough to turn round and kill Tarrant at the end, but perhaps it isn't quite that superhuman.


I think that's why Tarrant lies down, but yes, Vinni's reaction should have been faster (but then, perhaps too when Deeta holsters his gun and speaks to Vinni.)


After all, Arnie always wins against nastier 'droids.
Don't philosophise at me you electronic moron.
 
https://www.seraglio-design.com/
Obsidian
Not sure if I'll be here next week. Depends on if I get to Sydney, in which case, have a good rewatch next time and I'll catch up with you on another planet.

Go well everyone.
Don't philosophise at me you electronic moron.
 
https://www.seraglio-design.com/
Joe Dredd
It's a terrific episode. All the characters get something to do, Cally uses her telepathy, Dayna gets to hold up Servalan, and her father's death is remembered. As lots of people note, it is a very 'SF' concept, but particularly the idea of everyone being able to join in on the kill and thus, Tarrant intimately experiencing his brother's death, is both an admirable story-telling idea (from outside the story) and tragic (from within it). Servalan's plot to take advantage of things is believable and brings some political machinations back to B7, plus the legalese of rule violations and championship succession, etc. Not to mention a few funny lines -- though Avon's 'Oh good' smile to Tarrant being willing to cheat looks more PD than Kerr Avon.
 
AnneArthur

Joe Dredd wrote: ↑

AnneArthur wrote: ↑

I tend to feel that technically the Vinni android should be quick enough to turn round and kill Tarrant at the end, but perhaps it isn't quite that superhuman.


I think that's why Tarrant lies down, but yes, Vinni's reaction should have been faster (but then, perhaps too when Deeta holsters his gun and speaks to Vinni.)


Yes, I think that's it - it is prepared to draw, and can do so faster than Deeta, whereas at the end it is expecting Tarrant to come through the door, not to be lying behind it.
 
AnneArthur

Obsidian wrote: ↑

Not sure if I'll be here next week. Depends on if I get to Sydney, in which case, have a good rewatch next time and I'll catch up with you on another planet.

Go well everyone.


Have a good week - or two! Hope everything goes well.
 
Obsidian

Joe Dredd wrote: ↑

It's a terrific episode. All the characters get something to do, Cally uses her telepathy, Dayna gets to hold up Servalan, and her father's death is remembered. As lots of people note, it is a very 'SF' concept, but particularly the idea of everyone being able to join in on the kill and thus, Tarrant intimately experiencing his brother's death, is both an admirable story-telling idea (from outside the story) and tragic (from within it). Servalan's plot to take advantage of things is believable and brings some political machinations back to B7, plus the legalese of rule violations and championship succession, etc. Not to mention a few funny lines -- though Avon's 'Oh good' smile to Tarrant being willing to cheat looks more PD than Kerr Avon.


Well said, Sir.
Don't philosophise at me you electronic moron.
 
https://www.seraglio-design.com/
AnneArthur

Joe Dredd wrote: ↑

It's a terrific episode. All the characters get something to do, Cally uses her telepathy, Dayna gets to hold up Servalan, and her father's death is remembered. As lots of people note, it is a very 'SF' concept, but particularly the idea of everyone being able to join in on the kill and thus, Tarrant intimately experiencing his brother's death, is both an admirable story-telling idea (from outside the story) and tragic (from within it). Servalan's plot to take advantage of things is believable and brings some political machinations back to B7, plus the legalese of rule violations and championship succession, etc. Not to mention a few funny lines -- though Avon's 'Oh good' smile to Tarrant being willing to cheat looks more PD than Kerr Avon.


Yes, a really first rate episode - and, as you say, actually uses all the crew, and uses them well. Series 3 ending on a high.
 
Joe Dredd
It's a shame Chris Boucher couldn't have written a few more episodes of S4.
 
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