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Current Poll

Who is your Favourite Guest Rebel?

Avalon - (Project Avalon)
Avalon - (Project Avalon)
18% [17 Votes]

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Selma - (Horizon)
5% [5 Votes]

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Tyce - (Bounty)
15% [14 Votes]

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19% [18 Votes]

Hal Mellanby - (Aftermath)
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14% [13 Votes]

Hunda - (Traitor)
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5% [5 Votes]

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9% [9 Votes]

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Started: 09 July 2016

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Warlord and Blake.
Panna
I've always had lots of questions about this episode and what transpired between it and Blake. For instance, why did they blow up Xenon base? It was already in bits.
I also think of it as the beginning of the very end for all of them. Although someone mentioned Gold, but I wasn't just thinking of Avon losing it. Terminal starts the downward spiral IMHO, but Warlord is sort of the Point of No Return for me. Frown
"You'd never get a cat to be a servant. You ever see a cat return a stick? "Hey, man! You threw the stick, you go get it yourself! I'm busy! If you wanted the stick so bad, why'd you throw it away in the first place?"
 
Panna
Well, is there anyone else who wonders about Warlord? Or Blake?
"You'd never get a cat to be a servant. You ever see a cat return a stick? "Hey, man! You threw the stick, you go get it yourself! I'm busy! If you wanted the stick so bad, why'd you throw it away in the first place?"
 
Panna
I wondered if the episodes were filmed out of order and if Orbit was filmed after Warlord and Blake.
"You'd never get a cat to be a servant. You ever see a cat return a stick? "Hey, man! You threw the stick, you go get it yourself! I'm busy! If you wanted the stick so bad, why'd you throw it away in the first place?"
 
Travisina
I would first ask what's transpired between Orbit and Warlord. There's a chunk of time missing, in which Vila becomes sullen and bitter - and is never again seen alone with Avon. He's more drunk than usual, and even nasty to Zeeona, which as was pointed out on the rewatch thread, is uncharacteristic.

Then there's the whole story of Avon and Tarrant's trip to Betafarl, and what went on there - apart from Tarrant and Zeeona falling in lurve.
Avon is over the top at the beginning of Warlord, and apparently deliberately sends Zeeona to her death - or assisted suicide, if you prefer. And smiles about it. And that's before we even start thinking about Blake!

Lots of questions...
Twitter: @TravisinaB7
Tumblr: tumblr
There's no point being grown up if you can't be childish sometimes
 
Panna
Panna wrote:

I wondered if the episodes were filmed out of order and if Orbit was filmed after Warlord and Blake.

hmm, still seems to be a timewarp with the posts.
Anyway, maybe Orbit was filmed last. The reason I wonder this is that Vila doesn't seem angry enough at Avon IMHO. He even stands next to Avon aboard Scorpio in Blake.
Contrast that with how he treats Zeonna about her father when it wasn't even her fault.
Maybe one could make the argument that Vila is about to snap?
"You'd never get a cat to be a servant. You ever see a cat return a stick? "Hey, man! You threw the stick, you go get it yourself! I'm busy! If you wanted the stick so bad, why'd you throw it away in the first place?"
 
trevor travis
Panna wrote:

Panna wrote:

I wondered if the episodes were filmed out of order and if Orbit was filmed after Warlord and Blake.

hmm, still seems to be a timewarp with the posts.
Anyway, maybe Orbit was filmed last. The reason I wonder this is that Vila doesn't seem angry enough at Avon IMHO. He even stands next to Avon aboard Scorpio in Blake.
Contrast that with how he treats Zeonna about her father when it wasn't even her fault.
Maybe one could make the argument that Vila is about to snap?


I think Warlord and Blake were filmed after Orbit. Blake was definitely the final studio session, with the scenes between Tarrant and Blake being the last ever to be caught on camera.

There's definitely a difference in Vila in Warlord & Blake, as Travisina has pointed out. His whole attitude towards Avon has changed, witness the way he questions Avon about Tarrant's whereabouts in Blake.

I don't think he's about to "snap" as such, but rather to fall deeper and deeper into drunkenness and self pity.
 
Travisina
Panna wrote:

Maybe one could make the argument that Vila is about to snap?

That's an interesting theory. When watching 'Warlord' this evening, it struck me that it was an episode that has mis-trust and betrayalas its central theme. Zeeona betrays her father's trust by sneaking off with Tarrant, Soolin betrays Avon's trust by facilitating ditto, Zukan betrays Avon and all on Xenon Base, Servalan betrays Zukan, round and around it goes and lots of people end up dead.
So why does Avon smile...?
Twitter: @TravisinaB7
Tumblr: tumblr
There's no point being grown up if you can't be childish sometimes
 
meegat39
Travisina wrote:

Panna wrote:

Maybe one could make the argument that Vila is about to snap?

That's an interesting theory. When watching 'Warlord' this evening, it struck me that it was an episode that has mis-trust and betrayalas its central theme. Zeeona betrays her father's trust by sneaking off with Tarrant, Soolin betrays Avon's trust by facilitating ditto, Zukan betrays Avon and all on Xenon Base, Servalan betrays Zukan, round and around it goes and lots of people end up dead.
So why does Avon smile...?


It could be that this is revenge on Tarrant for him doing "his" woman in Sand...
"If you didn't want the answer, you shouldn't have asked the question."
 
JustBrad
For me it begins with Rumors of Death.

Avon was always very sure of himself, very sure of his world view. After ROD, that confidence begins to slip. It's gradual at first, almost imperceptible, but it leads him to throw his customary caution to the solar winds in Terminal.

Cally's death and the loss of Liberator are further blows, but Avon has the sanity saving satisfaction of knowing Servalan is defeated.... for a while.

Orbit is the point of no return. Something that was bent, breaks. By Warlord, Avon has lost all empathy for the crew (re his smile as he deduces Zeeona's fate). By the final episode, Blake isn' t the only one who can't tell the difference anymore.
 
Panna
I agree that Avon has lost all empathy for the crew-as well as sympathy. However, he does threaten Zukan at the possibility of any of his crew dying. Does he regard them as HIS property do you think? To save or dispose of as he sees fit?
"You'd never get a cat to be a servant. You ever see a cat return a stick? "Hey, man! You threw the stick, you go get it yourself! I'm busy! If you wanted the stick so bad, why'd you throw it away in the first place?"
 
Travisina
Panna wrote:

However, he does threaten Zukan at the possibility of any of his crew dying.

He speaks highly of Vila to Keiller as well - mind you, that was pre-Orbit.

Does he regard them as HIS property do you think? To save or dispose of as he sees fit?

It's possible. But how do they regard themselves? There's remarkably little revolt or dissension, compared with the way the crew used to argue with Blake. I'd love to know what conversations took place after Stardrive, after Gold, after Orbit - despite everything, they continue to work together as a more or less cohesive group, following Avon.
Twitter: @TravisinaB7
Tumblr: tumblr
There's no point being grown up if you can't be childish sometimes
 
littlesue
Panna wrote:

I wondered if the episodes were filmed out of order and if Orbit was filmed after Warlord and Blake.


I'm sure that there is a list, somewhere, that gives all the information as to what episode was filmed, where and when.
I know that the very first scene filmed was from Timesquad when Blake, Vila and Avon teleport down to the surface of Saurian Major...the actors realised they were going to have fun as Mr D gradually slid down the hill while delivering his line to Mr Thomas! That was the first Blooper...which I don't think was saved for the Blooper reel!

I believe the last scene shot, in the studio, was the flyer taking off in 'Blake'
Cold.....you don't know the meaning of cold.
Cold is when you have ice on the INSIDE of the window!!!


sues stories http://sjlittle.w...
sues youtube channel http://www.youtub...e54/videos
sues book shelf https://www.media...ne%20Shelf
rebel run video http://www.youtub...prqS-XZtLo
Lara and Sue's Stories http://lectorisal....webs.com/
 
trevor travis
Just to confirm that production order was:
1. Orbit
2. Warlord
3. Blake

"Blake" and indeed the whole of B7 completed filming on November 7th, 1981. The final shoot-out was filmed on November 6th, 1981.
 
trevor travis
There are no direct references to the shuttle incident between Avon and Vila in either “Warlord” or “Blake”. But I take this to be an instance of how B7 treated its viewers with intelligence, that it wasn’t necessary to have “Last Time On Blake’s 7” reminders, or to ram what happened in the previous episode down our throats.

Instead the viewer is left to pick up on the changes in behaviour of the crew. For example, the embittered and drunken behavior of Vila (he is unusually cruel to Zeeona), the humourless delivery of the line: “Avon's idea of diplomacy is like breaking someone's leg then saying: Lean on me”, the fact he doesn’t trust Avon when Tarrant goes missing in “Blake”, plus we never see Vila alone with Avon at any point during the final two episodes.

It is perhaps an example of why B7 is superior to modern television, it’s much more subtle and natural and keeps the melodrama to a minimum.
 
Anniew
Why does Avon smile? I think it is a painful kind of empathy or even a kind of painful envy and I think it's more a grimace than a smile. I think Avon is watching his youthful self reacting to the loss of the love of his life and reflecting that Tarrant like him will have to experience much worse than this before they die, even though it feels like death at the time.

I don't see what else Avon could do but send Zeeona down the rectify the situation caused by her father. He can't send Vila, Soolin or Dayna because he is responsible for them. Tarrant would go but that would leave them without a pilot and they have to leave the base sometime soon.

The smile could also be because he recognises that Zeeona effectively committed suicide from guilt or even because he feels that Tarrant is an idiot not to know what she intended or just at the cruel irony of fate and the fact he's had to effectively to condemn another young person to death.

I don't see it Necessarily as triumph over Tarrant. And I would cite Avon's more respectful attitude in the next episode as proof. I think he now feels a kinship with Tarrant cos they have both lost someone dear to them.
Just because I can't sing doesn't mean I won't.
 
Anniew
Trevor I wish posts came with a like button. I love your post about why we get no mention of the shuttle incident !
Just because I can't sing doesn't mean I won't.
 
Anniew
And BradPaula I still think that Servalan conditioned Avon on Terminal to do more than just believe her about Blake. The opening shot of him with hands over his eyes is very weird and suggestive of subliminal messages and Servalan herself says she conditioned him. Could explain how she knows what he's up to and why he is so drawn to her
Just because I can't sing doesn't mean I won't.
 
Panna
Anniew wrote:

And BradPaula I still think that Servalan conditioned Avon on Terminal to do more than just believe her about Blake. The opening shot of him with hands over his eyes is very weird and suggestive of subliminal messages and Servalan herself says she conditioned him. Could explain how she knows what he's up to and why he is so drawn to her

Yes! She always knows or baits the traps herself as if she is totally confident that he will respond. And it doesn't seem like series 1 or 2 Avon who was extremely cautious. Or even series 3 when he has the Liberator to help. From Terminal onwards Avon seems to have lost his 6th sense about trouble.
"You'd never get a cat to be a servant. You ever see a cat return a stick? "Hey, man! You threw the stick, you go get it yourself! I'm busy! If you wanted the stick so bad, why'd you throw it away in the first place?"
 
Panna
Pfft
trevor travis wrote:

Just to confirm that production order was:
1. Orbit
2. Warlord
3. Blake

"Blake" and indeed the whole of B7 completed filming on November 7th, 1981. The final shoot-out was filmed on November 6th, 1981.

Thanks for the info, TT.
 
Panna
trevor travis wrote:

There are no direct references to the shuttle incident between Avon and Vila in either “Warlord” or “Blake”. But I take this to be an instance of how B7 treated its viewers with intelligence, that it wasn’t necessary to have “Last Time On Blake’s 7” reminders, or to ram what happened in the previous episode down our throats.

Instead the viewer is left to pick up on the changes in behaviour of the crew. For example, the embittered and drunken behavior of Vila (he is unusually cruel to Zeeona), the humourless delivery of the line: “Avon's idea of diplomacy is like breaking someone's leg then saying: Lean on me”, the fact he doesn’t trust Avon when Tarrant goes missing in “Blake”, plus we never see Vila alone with Avon at any point during the final two episodes.

It is perhaps an example of why B7 is superior to modern television, it’s much more subtle and natural and keeps the melodrama to a minimum.

I do like that's it's subtle and not overly melodramatic like a lot of sci-fi today.
I guess I just expected Vila to be at least as hostile towards Avon as Tarrant is on a regular basis. However, maybe that's why he cried in the shuttle, like he should have known that Avon would betray him sooner or later?
"You'd never get a cat to be a servant. You ever see a cat return a stick? "Hey, man! You threw the stick, you go get it yourself! I'm busy! If you wanted the stick so bad, why'd you throw it away in the first place?"
 
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