Login

Username

Password



Not a rebel yet?
CLICK HERE to register.

Forgotten your password?
Request a new one from Orac HERE.

Current User Info

· Lurkers Lurking: 4

· Rebels Active: 0

· Total Rebels: 909
· Newest Rebel: John Hughes

Login Help

If you are having problems logging in, please bear in mind that if you originally registered at the site before 8th January 2014 and you haven't re-registered since that date your old login details will no longer work. If this is the case, please re-register, preferably with your former username. If you are having trouble with the registration process itself, try looking HERE and HERE for help and advice. If you need further assistance, please do CONTACT us.

Current Poll

Who is your Favourite Guest Rebel?

Avalon - (Project Avalon)
Avalon - (Project Avalon)
18% [17 Votes]

Selma - (Horizon)
Selma - (Horizon)
5% [5 Votes]

Tyce - (Bounty)
Tyce - (Bounty)
15% [14 Votes]

Norm One - (Redemption)
Norm One - (Redemption)
2% [2 Votes]

Bek - (Shadow)
Bek - (Shadow)
6% [6 Votes]

Kasabi - (Pressure Point)
Kasabi - (Pressure Point)
19% [18 Votes]

Hal Mellanby - (Aftermath)
Hal Mellanby - (Aftermath)
14% [13 Votes]

Hunda - (Traitor)
Hunda - (Traitor)
5% [5 Votes]

Deva - (Blake)
Deva - (Blake)
9% [9 Votes]

Other
Other
6% [6 Votes]

Votes: 95
Login to vote.
Started: 09 July 2016

Polls Archive

Forum Activity

Newest Articles

B7 Images

+ Cookies +

The Horizon website uses cookies to allow user log-in and navigation. The site does not host advertising that requires the use of third-party cookies. Registering as a member of this site implies your consent to the use of cookies.

View Thread

 Print Thread
Rewatch - Australia - Moloch - 28th Saturday March 2015
Travisina
trevor travis wrote:

I love the twist here... they take Avon and Dayna captive... and against expectations, it's Avon who is tortured.

0947

Why 'against expectations'? Why should they not torture the person in charge rather than the underling (their thinking not mine) - regardless of gender?
Twitter: @TravisinaB7
Tumblr: tumblr
There's no point being grown up if you can't be childish sometimes
 
Spaceship Dispatcher
Travisina wrote:

trevor travis wrote:

I love the twist here... they take Avon and Dayna captive... and against expectations, it's Avon who is tortured.

0947

Why 'against expectations'? Why should they not torture the person in charge rather than the underling (their thinking not mine) - regardless of gender?

Hi, I'm back for a few moments! It's against viewer expectations imo because it's a genre trope that the male protagonist is forced to give in because his female companions are being threatened, not that it would necessarily worked on Avon, but here the villains go straight for the hero even when younger female characters are present.
Reversing the polarity of the neutron flow. I bet that means something. It sounds great.

Blake's 7: Trojan Horse (s4 fanfic) - Blake's 7: Through the Needle's Eye (s2 fanfic)

Spaceship Dispatcher's fanfic site
 
trevor travis
Travisina wrote:
I never said Doran was a rapist, he just enjoyed seeing other people being raped.
Gan killed a guard who had murdered his wife.
Doran threatened an unarmed girl.
Bit of a difference, there.


Gan attacks Cally in Breakdown.

I'm not saying that Gan is a mass murderer (he isn't), but he has circumstancs, and maybe Doran did too.

0956
 
Travisina
Thanks for your company, everybody. It was nice not to have any timey-wimey issues today!

Just a reminder that our clocks go forward tonight, so next week's rewatch will be at 10.00am in the UK.

I won't be around for the next two eps - going on a (well-earned) holiday for two weeks!

Hope to join you again for whatever episode is on 19th April - 'Rescue', I guess. From Doran to Dorian...
Twitter: @TravisinaB7
Tumblr: tumblr
There's no point being grown up if you can't be childish sometimes
 
trevor travis
Spaceship Dispatcher wrote:
Hi, I'm back for a few moments! It's against viewer expectations imo because it's a genre trope that the male protagonist is forced to give in because his female companions are being threatened, not that it would necessarily worked on Avon, but here the villains go straight for the hero even when younger female characters are present.


Yes, that's right, it plays against expectations, especially back in 1980. It's maybe a foreshadowing of what Ben Steed will do in "Power" with Gunn Sar, a supposedly macho character who turns out to be a big softie.

0959
 
trevor travis
Terrific episode... which reminds us of the slightly grim universe that B7 is set in.

1001
 
Travisina
trevor travis wrote:

Travisina wrote:
I never said Doran was a rapist, he just enjoyed seeing other people being raped.
Gan killed a guard who had murdered his wife.
Doran threatened an unarmed girl.
Bit of a difference, there.


Gan attacks Cally in Breakdown.

Without wishing to go too far off topic, I put that down to his limiter malfunctioning. I don't think he knew what he was doing, just as Cally didn't know what she was doing when she decked Vila in 'The Web'.

I'm not saying that Gan is a mass murderer (he isn't), but he has circumstancs, and maybe Doran did too.

0956

Doran says that when he gets aggravated he kills people (and Chesil was aggravating him). People, not one person. As far as we know, Gan only killed once.
Twitter: @TravisinaB7
Tumblr: tumblr
There's no point being grown up if you can't be childish sometimes
 
trevor travis
Thanks everyone. Now to watch the rest of F1 qualifying, which I've just realised is on...

1002
 
Spaceship Dispatcher
mrsbookmark wrote:

These men are really horrible, but wouldn't that be true? This is a military left to its own devices after a devastating war-no sense of protocol. Just violence and power and rape. I hate them, but the actors are doing a good job of being horrible people.

Agreed, it's not a poor production. The acting in the episode holds up pretty well, and they are supposed to be unpleasant people! Taking the viewer out of their comfort zone is the role of challenging dramas, but that doesn't make them poor writing or performances. This is a show that's full of adult issues presented within a fantasy that allows them to be explored in a different way to contemporary drama, and that's partly why were online discussing the show today.
Reversing the polarity of the neutron flow. I bet that means something. It sounds great.

Blake's 7: Trojan Horse (s4 fanfic) - Blake's 7: Through the Needle's Eye (s2 fanfic)

Spaceship Dispatcher's fanfic site
 
trevor travis
Travisina wrote:
Doran says that when he gets aggravated he kills people (and Chesil was aggravating him). People, not one person. As far as we know, Gan only killed once.


But is it just talk? It's all verbal. It's notable that Doran doesn't grab Chesil while threatening her?

Is his bark worse than his bite?

1004
 
trevor travis
Spaceship Dispatcher wrote:

mrsbookmark wrote:

These men are really horrible, but wouldn't that be true? This is a military left to its own devices after a devastating war-no sense of protocol. Just violence and power and rape. I hate them, but the actors are doing a good job of being horrible people.

Agreed, it's not a poor production. The acting in the episode holds up pretty well, and they are supposed to be unpleasant people! Taking the viewer out of their comfort zone is the role of challenging dramas, but that doesn't make them poor writing or performances. This is a show that's full of adult issues presented within a fantasy that allows them to be explored in a different way to contemporary drama, and that's partly why were online discussing the show today.


Precisely, it's the lack of comfort zone that makes Terry Nation's TV series (B7 and Survivors) so enthralling. Arguably "Moloch" is B7 getting back to basics, echoing the disturbing themes of e.g. "The Way Back".

This isn't Star Trek or another wishy-washy American series, with an utopian vision of the future. B7 is proper drama, in which people act in quite disturbing ways at times. This is a future where everything has gone off the rails, a futuristic dark age. It's dystopian, not utopian.

1010
 
Spaceship Dispatcher
trevor travis wrote:

Travisina wrote:
Doran says that when he gets aggravated he kills people (and Chesil was aggravating him). People, not one person. As far as we know, Gan only killed once.

But is it just talk? It's all verbal. It's notable that Doran doesn't grab Chesil while threatening her?

Is his bark worse than his bite?

Indeed, that particular statement is not supported on screen and remains merely that: a statement.

Likewise, what Gan did or didn't do and whether there were mitigating circumstances can only be fan speculation based on a few statements that ultimately go unsupported one way or the other. Just as you say that Gan being violent is caused by the limiter, you could argue equally that he is violent and being nice is caused by the limiter without being able to say for sure either way.
Reversing the polarity of the neutron flow. I bet that means something. It sounds great.

Blake's 7: Trojan Horse (s4 fanfic) - Blake's 7: Through the Needle's Eye (s2 fanfic)

Spaceship Dispatcher's fanfic site
 
Spaceship Dispatcher
trevor travis wrote:

Arguably "Moloch" is B7 getting back to basics, echoing the disturbing themes of e.g. "The Way Back"

Actually, if you're looking for an episode that's like Survivors then this is right up there. This is like the farm folk riding out to visit that nice settlement over the hill and finding it's full of violent nutters with curious social ideas.*

*The Chosen springs to mind here...
Reversing the polarity of the neutron flow. I bet that means something. It sounds great.

Blake's 7: Trojan Horse (s4 fanfic) - Blake's 7: Through the Needle's Eye (s2 fanfic)

Spaceship Dispatcher's fanfic site
 
Travisina
trevor travis wrote:

Travisina wrote:
Doran says that when he gets aggravated he kills people (and Chesil was aggravating him). People, not one person. As far as we know, Gan only killed once.


But is it just talk? It's all verbal. It's notable that Doran doesn't grab Chesil while threatening her?


Depends on how he likes to kill them - may prefer to use a firearm or blunt instrument. He doesn't like women - maybe that extends to touching them.
Twitter: @TravisinaB7
Tumblr: tumblr
There's no point being grown up if you can't be childish sometimes
 
Travisina
Spaceship Dispatcher wrote:

mrsbookmark wrote:

These men are really horrible, but wouldn't that be true? This is a military left to its own devices after a devastating war-no sense of protocol. Just violence and power and rape. I hate them, but the actors are doing a good job of being horrible people.

Agreed, it's not a poor production. The acting in the episode holds up pretty well, and they are supposed to be unpleasant people!

It has some poor production values, but the acting is okay throughout. Grose et al are meant to be Gross et al, I get it.
However, the actor playing Doran doesn't seem to know whether his lines are supposed to be light and amusing or dark and menacing. It varies between the two which may be why I find the character so contradictory and sleazy.
NB I blame the script, not the actor.
Twitter: @TravisinaB7
Tumblr: tumblr
There's no point being grown up if you can't be childish sometimes
 
trevor travis
Travisina wrote:
Depends on how he likes to kill them - may prefer to use a firearm or blunt instrument. He doesn't like women - maybe that extends to touching them.


Well yes it is almost entirely supposition as to how Doran was a murderer. Just as it is about Gan.
 
Spaceship Dispatcher
Travisina wrote:

However, the actor playing Doran doesn't seem to know whether his lines are supposed to be light and amusing or dark and menacing. It varies between the two which may be why I find the character so contradictory and sleazy...

Working with the public, especially in public transport where you come into contact with... shall we say 'different types of people', I find Doran to be pretty spot on! Chatting jovially one minute, maybe cracking witticisms that may or may not actually be humorous, and then losing it and taking a swing the next minute before pretending nothing has happened.
Reversing the polarity of the neutron flow. I bet that means something. It sounds great.

Blake's 7: Trojan Horse (s4 fanfic) - Blake's 7: Through the Needle's Eye (s2 fanfic)

Spaceship Dispatcher's fanfic site
 
Anniew
Sorry I missed the rewatch but have read comments with interest. I think ( as with Avon's character) it's possible to see Steed's intentions with this episode as deeply moral or disgustingly but entertainingly opportunistic . For example the sexism shown by Grosse et al is only a step above that shown by Avon when he points imperiously to indicate where Dayna should go. Taarant's whole demeanor towards Vila is bullying and he comes over as potentially as bad as Grosse. The whole episode challenges the idea of the heroic in a very uncomfortable way. We laugh at Servalan and next minute see the trail of death she has left. Vila seems a decent man, unwillingly to kill, yet he accepts and seems to like Doran and would probably have stood by while he killed Poola. Cally is on boring teleport watch just like the girls. The parallels are there. For me it's a revenge tragedy episode full of grotesque black humour and showing that in evil, power driven worlds good can never be white, just a murky shade of grey, unless you sacrifice your life.

Or just as plausibly - it's the murky fantasy of a sexist guy realised by a low budget production team - which I should be ashamed of myself to find funny but which I do - even the little fried chicken.
Just because I can't sing doesn't mean I won't.
 
Spaceship Dispatcher
Anniew wrote:

...For example the sexism shown by Grosse et al is only a step above that shown by Avon when he points imperiously to indicate where Dayna should go. Taarant's whole demeanor towards Vila is bullying and he comes over as potentially as bad as Grosse. The whole episode challenges the idea of the heroic in a very uncomfortable way. We laugh at Servalan and next minute see the trail of death she has left. Vila seems a decent man, unwillingly to kill, yet he accepts and seems to like Doran and would probably have stood by while he killed Poola. Cally is on boring teleport watch just like the girls. The parallels are there...

You mean that aspects of the episode act like a mirror through which we can reevaluate our regular protagonists? That's a really interesting thought...
Reversing the polarity of the neutron flow. I bet that means something. It sounds great.

Blake's 7: Trojan Horse (s4 fanfic) - Blake's 7: Through the Needle's Eye (s2 fanfic)

Spaceship Dispatcher's fanfic site
 
Spaceship Dispatcher
Anniew wrote:

Or just as plausibly - it's the murky fantasy of a sexist guy realised by a low budget production team - which I should be ashamed of myself to find funny but which I do - even the little fried chicken.

Even if the writer was a sexist with murky fantasies, and I don't believe that writing about bad things makes you a bad person or else we would tar most of the profession, it's not likely that Chris Boucher would have commissioned and then used the story without feeling it was dramatically merited and exciting.
Reversing the polarity of the neutron flow. I bet that means something. It sounds great.

Blake's 7: Trojan Horse (s4 fanfic) - Blake's 7: Through the Needle's Eye (s2 fanfic)

Spaceship Dispatcher's fanfic site
 
Jump to Forum:
Orac rendered this page in 0.56 seconds
9,128,421 unique visits since 8th January 2014