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Current Poll

Who is your Favourite Guest Rebel?

Avalon - (Project Avalon)
Avalon - (Project Avalon)
18% [17 Votes]

Selma - (Horizon)
Selma - (Horizon)
5% [5 Votes]

Tyce - (Bounty)
Tyce - (Bounty)
15% [14 Votes]

Norm One - (Redemption)
Norm One - (Redemption)
2% [2 Votes]

Bek - (Shadow)
Bek - (Shadow)
6% [6 Votes]

Kasabi - (Pressure Point)
Kasabi - (Pressure Point)
19% [18 Votes]

Hal Mellanby - (Aftermath)
Hal Mellanby - (Aftermath)
14% [13 Votes]

Hunda - (Traitor)
Hunda - (Traitor)
5% [5 Votes]

Deva - (Blake)
Deva - (Blake)
9% [9 Votes]

Other
Other
6% [6 Votes]

Votes: 95
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Started: 09 July 2016

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Are you a Loyalist or a Jumper?
trevor travis
President Solvite wrote:

There's an episode called Who Mourns for Adonis that rings a few bells but I don't recall him being called 'God' as such but he is an alien who claims to be and was once called 'Apollo'. Whilst not being the best Trek episode in my opinion perhaps it certainly has an intelligent enough plot and makes more sense scientifically speaking than a comparable B7 episode Dawn of the Gods!


That sounds like it could be the one!

Sorry PS, but this is one show you're unlikely to be able to convert me on. I prefer Terry's visions of the future and that sort of thing. Wink
 
President Solvite
trevor travis wrote:

President Solvite wrote:

There's an episode called Who Mourns for Adonis that rings a few bells but I don't recall him being called 'God' as such but he is an alien who claims to be and was once called 'Apollo'. Whilst not being the best Trek episode in my opinion perhaps it certainly has an intelligent enough plot and makes more sense scientifically speaking than a comparable B7 episode Dawn of the Gods!


That sounds like it could be the one!

Sorry PS, but this is one show you're unlikely to be able to convert me on. I prefer Terry's visions of the future and that sort of thing. Wink


Not trying to convert you.. I accept you don't like it but you have to admit Trek is a quality show, has staying power, won awards and is good, although not your specific 'cup 'o tea.

I just took exception to the 'all rubbish' comment with no cited specifics.

I also prefer B7 overall, but Trek has a certain corner in my heart.
I generally loathed TNG, but even there are a few (a very few gems). Although I must say First Contact as a film is quite good, personally I think Pat Stewart is let down by some of his supporting cast members.. (or they suffer from a lack of decent writing)
 
http://nothingsforgotten.freeforums.net/
trevor travis
President Solvite wrote:
I accept you don't like it but you have to admit Trek is a quality show, has staying power, won awards and is good, although not your specific 'cup 'o tea.


Oh, I forgot, the 2009 reboot is a very good film (different actor playing Kirk helps a lot Wink ). I must watch the sequel at some point.

Yes, PS, I will admit Trek is massively influential (although I think it has dated a lot, far more than e.g. 60s Who), and some of the stuff itís influenced is far superior than Trek itself.
 
President Solvite
The first film is good, the second film Into Darkness , not so much

In my view credit is mainly due to Zachary Quinto who is superb as Spock. Pine is okay as Kirk, but I think he isn't the reason the film does so well.

Nothing against his performance, I just think there are other aspects I would mention first.
 
http://nothingsforgotten.freeforums.net/
Spaceship Dispatcher
Loved the first prequel Star Trek movie, but not really taken with the second one as it stopped doing what the first film did so well in recreating the original series and reverted to being a standard and fairly dull modern cgi effects event.
Reversing the polarity of the neutron flow. I bet that means something. It sounds great.

Blake's 7: Trojan Horse (s4 fanfic) - Blake's 7: Through the Needle's Eye (s2 fanfic)

Spaceship Dispatcher's fanfic site
 
President Solvite
Technically speaking its not a prequel movie..
As it has a Spock from an alternate (original?) timeline

Closer to be a reimagining.. We need to stop thinking with time in linear terms.. (perhaps that is what this board is trying to tell us!)

*tries to think of a Trek inspired series that is superior to Trek itself*

EDIT:
Actually is this the case of when Trek jumped?
Edited by President Solvite on 16 February 2015 14:36:42
 
http://nothingsforgotten.freeforums.net/
Travisina
Just nipping in here to do a time test -

14.45

EDIT: 2 mins out
Twitter: @TravisinaB7
Tumblr: tumblr
There's no point being grown up if you can't be childish sometimes
 
Anniew
For me, it's the lack of ambiguity or contradiction in Star Trek ( all incarnations except possibly DS9 ) that makes it inferior to Blakes 7. The characters are good or bad ( unless possessed) whereas the seven are never entirely one or the other. Even Servalan and Travis have human moments when we glimpse there might have been other choices for them. The glorious reluctance with which they follow their leaders into battle, reliance on booze and stimulants to cope, irritation with each other ( not to make a point like McCoy with Spock but just getting niggled) their attraction to what is bad for them, -all these details endear the characters to me.
Just because I can't sing doesn't mean I won't.
 
JustBrad
It was long ago said of Star Trek that all men are Mighty, all women beautiful and wise, and all problems solvable.

Roddenberry had a Utopian view, where Nation clearly did not.
 
Anniew
A Holywood view based on plastic surgery and Viagra I suspect,
Just because I can't sing doesn't mean I won't.
 
Travisina
JustBrad wrote:
Roddenberry had a Utopian view, where Nation clearly did not.

And that, folks, is what defines the difference between American and British visions of the future:
America - Utopia
Britain - Dystopia

I went to a really interesting panel at Worldcon last year about Utopia -v- Dystopia, and how one person's Utopia could be another person's opposite. Old joke:
Somebody is being given a guided tour of the afterlife, and sees a very old, saintly man with a gorgeous young girl on his lap. His guide explains:
"He's in heaven, but she's in hell!"
Twitter: @TravisinaB7
Tumblr: tumblr
There's no point being grown up if you can't be childish sometimes
 
Hugbot
BradPaula wrote:

I think I'd have to vote no, but Servalan becoming Sleer may have got close.


These are exactly the same two options that I was contemplating, but I think I will settle for the 'no' option. Granted, Servalan's resurrection is ridiculous and there may be more low-quality episodes than in previous series. While Derek is my least favourite series it does contain some of my favourite episodes. The significant changes between S1-3 and S4 were no cheap devices to make the series more palatable to a mass audience; instead they even stressed the grittiness and the realism. These changes in the overall concept could actually have led to a higher quality of story telling (a pity that the authors did not make full use of the new possibilities!).

This poll also caused me to compare my respective opinions on Derek and the third season of Star Trek TOS (which is also generally considered to be the worst). Some of my arguments also hold true for ST-S3 (like Derek it contains some of my all-time favourites), but in the case of Trek I would definitely opt for shark jumping. While there are a few high-quality episodes, you have to wade through loads of utter rubbish in order to find them. There were no changes in the overall concept, but nonetheless a significant loss in quality. (And it aptly starts with Spock's Brain that makes Animals look like a brilliant and serious piece of sci-fi story telling.)

Speaking of Trek: I once was a big fan (albeit never a die-hard Trekkie) and I consider it still a classic, but the older I get the less regard I have for it (especially the depiction of women which is ... erm ... old-fashioned to say the least). But I can understand TT's opinion: When you grow up with the gritty realism of B7 and are subsequently exposed to the preachiness of ST and 'Gene Roddenberry's rose-coloured universe' (as one critic once called it) you are prone to not liking it. Pfft

Oh, and sorry to say that, but for me J. J. Abrams' re-imagination of ST is just the funniest Star Trek parody of all times! Grin
 
trevor travis
Nicely summed up, Travisina.

Something bugs me about Star Trek: TOS. And I think you've just put your finger on it. Wink
 
trevor travis
Hugbot wrote:
But I can understand TT's opinion: When you grow up with the gritty realism of B7 and are subsequently exposed to the preachiness of ST and 'Gene Roddenberry's rose-coloured universe' (as one critic once called it) you are prone to not liking it. Pfft


I think that's it. I got into liking anti-heroes, and then suddenly I was presented with Kirk, a one-dimensional 'hero' who we just had to accept did the right thing all the time.

He was always presented as being in the right. No-one ever questioned the fact he went around thumping all other races into submission.

Who's the equivalent of Kirk in B7? Blake? No. Avon? No. Yes, it's Servalan isn't it? She's the authority figure. And yet, accordingly to Roddenberry, this bloke is a hero who goodness is never questioned. Good grief!!!! Grin
 
JustBrad
Huugy and TT (sounds like a 70's detective show).

I actually grew up with ST:TOS. I didn't see B7 until I was out of college. Though I never considered myself a Trekkie, and will not do well in an ST trivia contest, TOS was, and always shall be a favorite of mine. It was ahead of its time in so many ways, and yet at times an obvious product of the 60's. Its treatment of women may actually be seen as liberal, given the fact that it was made when Mad Men takes place.

ST:TOS is what audiences, especially American audiences, wanted in 1967: The message that even if we tried to blow ourselves up during the cold war, it would all be okay in the end, and eventually, we would all manage to get along.
 
peladon
Anniew wrote:

Wow Peladon, that's a lot of sharks!


Or one shark that kept circling because it smelled the blood. Grin
 
President Solvite
Travisina wrote:

JustBrad wrote:
Roddenberry had a Utopian view, where Nation clearly did not.

And that, folks, is what defines the difference between American and British visions of the future:
America - Utopia
Britain - Dystopia

I went to a really interesting panel at Worldcon last year about Utopia -v- Dystopia, and how one person's Utopia could be another person's opposite. Old joke:
Somebody is being given a guided tour of the afterlife, and sees a very old, saintly man with a gorgeous young girl on his lap. His guide explains:
"He's in heaven, but she's in hell!"


And the maybe the innocent would perhaps just see a Grandfather sitting proudly with his Grandaughter. (which is the vision I initially had rather than the one painted) With the grand daughter having recently passed exams or similar. Afterall that is how Doctor Who started! An old man lurking in a box with a young school girl!

Sometimes the truth is not always what you might first think.. (although I am saddened and shocked and angered with the likes of the Saville, Harris scandals etc..)

Re Kirk being one dimensional.. I think that is a little unfair, you do get to see hints of mistakes and regrets throughout the episodes and in particular post TV series. This enhanced aspect can be explained having access to a fair few extra James Blish novels which were my staple in the breaks between Who seasons and before B7 aired! Granted he is more straightforward than Blake or Avon but so he should be! I think we can say similar things about characters from VftBotS and similar..
 
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Anniew
I was a huge fan of Star Trek - original and the next generation - but while I can still happily watch Blakes7 in all its glorious absurdity, I cringe when I catch old Star Trek episodes!
Just because I can't sing doesn't mean I won't.
 
President Solvite
I don't see the cringe factor in Trek at all (well quite a bit in the Next Gen but even there we have a few worthy moments)

Trek's a jolly romp where Blake is a gritty and dark yomp!

I'll watch whichever series dependent on the mood I'm in.. If I need cheering up I'll generally choose an old Trek episode off the menu. (or occasionally a light Vila episode) When I something a bit darker I'll go for B7 or another similar veined series.

Buck Rogers on the other hand DOES have a serious cringe factor (hence the original reason bringing Trek up which is what BRi25C was trying to be allegedly)

Space 1999 conceptually looks good whereas UFO looks a bit naff. Unfortunately the same can not be said of some of the acting and scripts. Where UFO was top notch in that area.
 
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trevor travis
President Solvite wrote:
Buck Rogers on the other hand DOES have a serious cringe factor (hence the original reason bringing Trek up which is what BRi25C was trying to be allegedly)


Not sure if Iíd agree with that. The first season of BR25C is actually rather good. A bit cheesy yes, but cringeworthy? Not at all really. Itís just great fun to watch.

The second season is just awful in any case.

Meanwhile, I wonít comment on the cringe factor of Trek, since I donít really watch it anymore. I watched most episodes during the 1990s repeat on BBC2, hoping it would get better at some point. It didnít.

And the Kirk from the original series was one-dimensional. It wasnít until the films (in particular, in No 6), that he started to face the consequences of his somewhat gung-ho actions.
 
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