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Hypothetical Question, Spoilers for Children of Auron and Rumours of Death
Wolfwoman
If, when Servalan blew up Auron, what would have happened if Liberator in turn had blown up Servalan? And if they'd done that, would Anna Grant's group have taken control of the Federation. If, in turn, she had taken control, what would have she done to Avon?
 
JustBrad
Ah, the great TV trope of the 70's. Don't kill a good villain.

It gets a bit silly, though, doesn't it? Dayna passing on chance after chance to kill Servalan. Blake booby trapping a hatch in Mission to Destiny, but not allowing anyone to kill Travis in Gambit. And how many times did Avon meet Servalan in S3 / S4 and not even try to shoot her, when he had no problem shooting anyone else?

To answer your question about Anna, yes, I think she had been waiting for her chance since Servalan took power. Had Avon killed Servalan, Anna would surely have launched her coup.

What would she have done with Avon? Remained Sula in disguise? How long would that work? Only until Orac intercepted the first President Sula viscast. Would she have sent him a message? "I survived, the rebels rescued me, they've taken control, but the Federation is fighting back. Please come help me. Please bring Liberator, please hurry, and please come alone."

Would Avon have fallen for it?
 
Wolfwoman
My husband's thought is that she would have sent people out to kill Avon, knowing that he would kill her first if he had the chance. She would have had the advantage, momentarily, of him not knowing who was the new ruler of the Federation.

My romantic side says no, she would have wanted him to join her.

I hadn't thought about your answer: her staying undercover, since it worked on ORAC up to that point. I don't think the information about Bartholomew's identity had been in the Federation databases at all (like information about Star One, some things were considered too sensitive).
 
JustBrad
Wolfwoman wrote:



My romantic side says no, she would have wanted him to join her.



Wanted to, yes, but she knows him well enough to realize he would quickly see through the ruse, and once he realized she had betrayed him... As we say of Avon, kiss kiss bang bang....
 
BradPaula
I think Anna had all the ear-marks of a future Servalan. Even though she pleads otherwise, you see she is relishing heading a people's council. If she had taken over from Servalan I think she'd want to silence anyone who would be a threat- even those close to her and who knew of her secrets- namely Avon and brother Del. She'd have no qualms about sending a hit squad to take them out IMO. The thing would be for Avon to seek out Del upon hearing of Anna's ascension to power and band together and plot to kill her themselves.

Yes, you've twigged it. There is no love lost between Anna Grant and me.
Zil: Oneness must resist the Host.
 
Grade Four Ignorant
Remember, Anna Grant was a security agent for the Federation. She made a career out of betrayal, subterfuge, espionage and manipulation. I don't for a minute believe that she ever loved Avon. She sold him out and left him to believe she'd been tortured and killed whilst in custody.

It's never made clear what the objective of her rebel faction was. They talk about forming a People's Council but nothing else beyond that. Although it's clear that Anna likes the idea of being the leader of the council.
 
JustBrad
I think Anna did 'love' Avon in her own way, that being the way of the classic, film noir evil femme fatale. She loved him enough to 'let him go,' but not enough to change her ways so that they could stay together. She may well have loved Avon, but not as much as she loved Power, and certainly not enough to hesitate reaching for her gun.
 
Gauda Cheese
I love that SPOILERS is in the heading. Oops
http://stwco.word... Stuff and things written by me.

My podcast: http://GATM.buzzs...
 
JannaKalderash
I don't think that Servalan should have been blown up; she should have died from heart failure brought on by the deathscreams of her children! That kind of psychic shock should have killed her, and yet, all we saw was one tear falling down her cheek, and then she killed Ginka for his deception.

With Servalan's death, Anna could easily have bumped off her husband and initiated her coup, but something like that would have made the airwaves within a span of time, and then Avon would have found out that not only was his former lover still alive, she was now widowed and the new President of the Federation's People's Council.

The ONE thing that Avon could not ABIDE was betrayal of any kind; even if he didn't kill a person afterward, he wasn't the type that would ever forgive someone for doing that to him. And he NEVER would have forgiven her.

As for killing her, to me that's a bit iffy. She'd be very well guarded at all times, and more than likely prepared for him to show up and try it, so why bother? She might be killed by her rivals on the Council anyway, so it would be a wasted effort to go after her.

On the other hand, she wouldn't know WHEN he was going to show up, so he might have the advantage of surprise on his side. With the help of a little bit of truth serum, he'd have her singing like a canary, get the truth out of her and THEN, debate on whether or not to kill her.
 
peladon
JannaKalderash wrote:


The ONE thing that Avon could not ABIDE was betrayal of any kind; even if he didn't kill a person afterward, he wasn't the type that would ever forgive someone for doing that to him. And he NEVER would have forgiven her.

.


I know its much loved fanon but I have never seen any real evidence for the assumption.
 
JannaKalderash
He didn't take Anna's betrayal of him very well, did he?

And the supposed betrayal by Blake ended badly for everyone, didn't it?

Or is that not enough evidence?
 
Grade Four Ignorant
JannaKalderash wrote:

He didn't take Anna's betrayal of him very well, did he?

And the supposed betrayal by Blake ended badly for everyone, didn't it?

Or is that not enough evidence?


He also abandoned Keiller to die when he learnt he was working for Servalan at the end of Gold.
 
peladon
JannaKalderash wrote:

He didn't take Anna's betrayal of him very well, did he?

And the supposed betrayal by Blake ended badly for everyone, didn't it?

Or is that not enough evidence?


Ah RoD, purple plotting at its most pure...

Anyway.


How did he take Anna's betrayal badly? Personally I would have said he took it quite well in the circumstances, after all he only killed her when she tried to shoot him in the back. He seems more grief stricken than angry, and what anger he does show is directed towards himself for being played for a fool.

As for Blake - well that whole set up is so flawed and phoney that I find it hard to take seriously. Even without the fact that the man of S4 is not the man of the previous series. But playing the game, after all its canon, I would have said that few people would not be affected by that level of betrayal , if that is what he suspected, given what he knew the consequences would be. But even so had Blake stood still when told to do so there is no reason to believe events would have followed the same course

Other than than those two incidents there is no reason in canon (on screen) to see Avon as more affected by betrayal than anyone else.
 
peladon
Grade Four Ignorant wrote:

JannaKalderash wrote:

He didn't take Anna's betrayal of him very well, did he?

And the supposed betrayal by Blake ended badly for everyone, didn't it?

Or is that not enough evidence?


He also abandoned Keiller to die when he learnt he was working for Servalan at the end of Gold.


Hmm, so what exactly were his other choices? Take him with them and risk that Servalan had some form of tracer on him, or had embedded explosives in his body, or just that Keiller would take the first opportunity to hand them over to Servalan again. I cant see any thing that gives me reason to assume that something other than pragmatisum comes into it, and certainly nothing that ties it up to betrayal.
 
trevor travis
Gauda Cheese wrote:

I love that SPOILERS is in the heading. Oops


Yup, that makes me chuckle as well. Grin
 
trevor travis
Avon only shot Anna, because she was trying to kill him. I'm not sure if he would have killed her otherwise.

As for Blake, it does seem that Blake has sold him out. Again, Avon doesn't shot him straight away, he asks Blake to stand still. Blake doesn't - a fatal error. It's a tragic misunderstanding between two men, neither realising how much the other has changed since the war.
 
Panna
Wolfwoman wrote:

If, when Servalan blew up Auron, what would have happened if Liberator in turn had blown up Servalan? And if they'd done that, would Anna Grant's group have taken control of the Federation. If, in turn, she had taken control, what would have she done to Avon?

Maybe Anna wouldn't have bothered if Servalan had died. After all, she thought she needed a subdued Servalan to get what she wanted, and wouldn't let Hob's men kill her.
I think though, if she had taken control, her luck would have changed and Avon would be none the wiser.
Rumours of Death could have the alternate title of: Too Many Coincindences. LOL
"You'd never get a cat to be a servant. You ever see a cat return a stick? "Hey, man! You threw the stick, you go get it yourself! I'm busy! If you wanted the stick so bad, why'd you throw it away in the first place?"
 
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