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Dr Who: Deep Breath
Angry Angel
I really enjoyed the episode, and think Peter Capaldi is going to be great. When Matt Smith turned up it was weird because I'd already forgotten him as the Doctor by then.

I thought the pacing was fine - the first part was mostly about the regeneration, then it moved on to the main plot. I thought Clara was much better written here than in her main episodes last year, and JLC sparked nicely against PC. I didn't see references to the Doctor's apparent age as ageist, so much as a reasonable expectation that when he regenerates you'd expect him to look younger. Madame Vastra's explanation of his face being how he wants to present himself to those around him seemed like a good answer to that.
 
http://lucyravenscar.blogspot.com/
Spaceship Dispatcher
Hi all

I have moved our conversation about Doctor Who in general, and Big Finish, over to the Doctor Who Discussion thread - apologies for the inconvenience of that thread being closed over the weekend.

SD
Reversing the polarity of the neutron flow. I bet that means something. It sounds great.

Blake's 7: Trojan Horse (s4 fanfic) - Blake's 7: Through the Needle's Eye (s2 fanfic)

Spaceship Dispatcher's fanfic site
 
trevor travis
Now watched Deep Breath a second time. I rather like it. Peter Calpaldi is very good indeed. Either 8/10 or 9/10.
 
Klenotka
It gets better after a second viewing.
I think many episodes of season 8 will be more appreciated after a second viewing. I am not sure if it makes sense but I didn´t really like Deep Breath too much when I first saw it and felt a little...disappointed? I am not sure - not bored, or not even disappointed, it just has a totally different pace. I hated Matt Smith´s running and sonic screwdriver waving at everything and his "I am the Doctor!" yelling everywhere but I guess watching it for three years had that effect on me. I got used to the new pace. Here, they take their time. It is like with the classic, where they spent a first few minutes even without the main characters and made us watching (and get attached to) supporting characters. After I rewatched it, I loved that and it gets better with each viewing, grows on you - I got a chance to catch more nuances of (Peter´s and Jenna´s) great acting but also some references and subtle details that lead to the "Am I a good man?" and the identity search thing.

I am not sure if it makes sense Grin
 
JustBrad
Yes, once Peter started to settle into 'his personality' I became far more interested. Regen episodes are always a bit silly.
 
trevor travis
Klenotka wrote:
it just has a totally different pace.


I liked the slower pace of "Deep Breath" - much needed after the Matt Smith episodes where the dialogue was often said too fast and the rushed episode conclusions took the mickey at times...

We'll see if the slower pace continues next week when we go back to the 45-minute episodes.
 
Klenotka
trevor travis wrote:

Klenotka wrote:
it just has a totally different pace.


I liked the slower pace of "Deep Breath" - much needed after the Matt Smith episodes where the dialogue was often said too fast and the rushed episode conclusions took the mickey at times...

We'll see if the slower pace continues next week when we go back to the 45-minute episodes.


That was one of the reasons I disliked Matt Smith´s Doctor. Peter can talk really fast as well but he does that with a certain...I don´t know...you see he knows exactly what he says. If it makes sense.
Yes, I am really a big fan of Peter Grin...when I think I saw him years ago in Neverwhere for the first time, I couldn´t have imagined he would become the Doctor (however perfect he is)

And I think the slower pace will be there - maybe npt steadily but Peter and Jenna definitely talked about the show being more focused on the characters and their relationship this year Smile
 
purplecleric
May I just say I'm so glad you're all enjoying my portrayal of the Dr...Grin

I'm reserving judgement til the series settles down a bit. The regen episodes are always a bit of a mess. This one was far too long with too much unnecessary padding. But, at first blush, PC (there I go again) brought a much welcome edge...
 
Coser
Deep Breath, Girl in the Fireplace Mk2 with a taste of Invasion of the Dinosaurs.

At least the Dino looks more convincing this time around.

Going to have to try and watch it again online sometime, but not terribly impressed with the story. Going to have to wait for PC's take on the character to mature a bit more, as that seems to be the fashion these days.

Tom Baker's regen story was better than this, with a brief flirt with not being 'all there' and then stright into the action. OK, so the robot FX were dodgy once it gets bigger parts keep vanishing to the dreaded CSO, and no-one will ever forget the destruction of an "Action Man" tank, but the story was better. Here I feel that the situation has been reversed. The effects are what I dreamed of over Jon/Tom's eras, but the story is a weak re-hash of one of the best 'nu-who' stories going, and all the poorer for it.

I will reserve judgement on the series for another 7 episodes, especially as the modern era is not known for it's strong regen stories.

At least a poor start means that the chances are better for an imporvement as the series goes on.
"Ask ten different scientists about the environment, population control, genetics, and you'll get ten different answers, but there's one thing every scientist on the planet agrees on. Whether it happens in a hundred years or a thousand years or a million years, eventually our Sun will grow cold and go out. When that happens, it won't just take us. It'll take Marilyn Monroe, and Lao-Tzu, and Einstein, and Morobuto, and Buddy Holly, and Aristophanes…then all of this…all of this…was for nothing. Unless we go to the stars." Commander sinclair, Babylon 5.
 
rojkerr1
Capaldi great, titles good, story confusing muddled claptrap, new theme awful. High hopes for Capaldi but Moffet outstaying his welcome in a big way, can't stand the Vastra time team, can't ever take sontarans seriously again, remember the glory days of linx, Styre, Stor...
 
Gauda Cheese
purplecleric wrote:

May I just say I'm so glad you're all enjoying my portrayal of the Dr...Grin

I'm reserving judgement til the series settles down a bit. The regen episodes are always a bit of a mess. This one was far too long with too much unnecessary padding. But, at first blush, PC (there I go again) brought a much welcome edge...


I didn't enjoy it Oops
http://stwco.word... Stuff and things written by me.

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Lurena
My neighbour has placed a very illegal satellite dish on his roof and now they can watch so many stations; he recorded DW Deep Breath for me!!!

I liked the slower pace, the lack of superfluous noise and flashing shots. Good camera work and nice music.
Hat for Mr Capaldi. He convinced me being the Doctor. But wasn't there too much focus on him not being a flirt or a hugger? I'm holding my breath of what will develop. I am not very interested in flirting relations with the Doctor's companions....
About the story and plot line: what should I say? It's classical DW and I like that. Not complicated. Humoresque.
It was good to explain re-generation again to help new comers to get into DW. I think that was written very well and even touching in the vagabond scene and the Matt-telephone scene.
I don't mind the dinosaur being out of proportions. She was too big to be true, but then it is Doctor Who fantasy and the Tardis had to be swallowed by her. Also there were more anomalies. Wasn't there a plastic bag? In Victorian London? I don't mind as it was a Doctor Who universe.
I'm looking forward to the next episode.
Lara&Sue's Blake's 7 stories
*No, I am not. I am not expendable, I'm not stupid, and I'm not going.*
 
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Spaceship Dispatcher
Lurena wrote:

About the story and plot line: what should I say? It's classical DW and I like that. Not complicated.

That was how I felt too; I don't want to be surprised by new ideas in every episode and generally just want to revisit the show as I already know and love. I agree that the way they introduced regeneration to a young audience that might not be used to it was very well done. By making Clara thrown by the experience, they gave those viewers someone to share their doubts with and identify with. Ultimately Clara accepts him once more, and I'm sure so did they...
Reversing the polarity of the neutron flow. I bet that means something. It sounds great.

Blake's 7: Trojan Horse (s4 fanfic) - Blake's 7: Through the Needle's Eye (s2 fanfic)

Spaceship Dispatcher's fanfic site
 
JustBrad
Space Chopper wrote:
...Clara's reactions... She knew that the Doctor could be older- she's seen ALL of them....


Good point. Her emotions did seem contrived for the sake of Drama.

Then again, as Paula said, it was a good sixty minute episode told in an hour and a half.
 
Space Chopper
Well, I gave it another watch last night, and realised what it was that irritated me with it- it was Clara's reactions. She knew that the Doctor could be older- she's seen ALL of them, but she still acted like a spoiled teenager when the Doctor changed, and wanted him to change back. The only ones there that acted like proper companions were Vastra and Jenny, when they weren't busy going 'we're gay, interspecies and married' every five minutes. Drop that bit, have Clara act the same, and the story could have been a lot shorter and better, and grated much less. All the heated bickering between Clara and the Doctor might make for skillful acting and wordplay, but it does precious little to the plot, and turned Clara from being a really rather likeable companion into a spoiled brat, which I did not like, and when confronted about it by Vastra, she got angry and turned the tables on her, accusing Vastra of flirting with her. I thought we'd got away from all that annoying nonsense when Amy said goodbye. I honestly think Moffat can't write proper 'strong women' roles, and confuses annoying snarkiness with strength.
funkyimg.com/i/2y558.jpg
Vila: "I plan to live forever- or die trying..."
 
Klenotka
I think people are mixing real, present Clara with all her echoes. Clara, *this* Clara, met only 10 and War Doctor. Who looked old, yes but he obviously got gradually older, not that he regenerated into an older version.
She knew about the regeneration but she never saw it. Those were other Claras, in different times and moments. They lived their lives separately on hers.
So there is that. Also, I think it was sort of a denial - imagine if your best friend changed his face and personality. She obviously cares (she holds his hand at least twice during first 15 minutes) but she is confused.

I think she was there also for the new fans who just went through the first regeneration with Smith.

I like Clara very much and I am glad they gave Jenna something more to do than just being cute next to 11 who didn´t really care about *her* but only about the mystery about her. I thought that scene with the half-man scene where she turned around the interrogation to her side was a great scene for Clara AND Jenna.

Yes, her behaviour was a bit bratish but honestly, who from new DW companions, except Donna, did not behave that way sometimes? I thought Rose was a terrible brat, and a terribly jealous and selfish one for a big portion of her time with 10 (not so much with 9, she was better with him). Even Marta, much more mature from Rose had her moments. So it is not just Moffat..and I really think Clara got much better here, she got a personality, which she lacked (however really good she was - mostly thanks to Jenna´s portrayal)
 
Lorna
Well said Klenotka. You said what I was thinking and couldn't put it into words!!Smile
 
Spaceship Dispatcher
There's been quite a deep discussion about Clara's emotions on another forum. These comments were my thoughts on the issue, in various posts, after another member posted: "I felt it reflected the difference between knowing about a thing and being faced with the reality of it.."

Absolutely my feelings too. It's not the writing that's inconsistent, it's human nature. Real people can be traumatised by different things to each other, and sometimes it's unexpected or something you had convinced yourself that you could cope with; finding out that you can't only makes your reaction more confused. For me, it was excellent writing of Clara and made her a more realistic and three dimensional character. In a way, she goes back to original ideals and format of the show: an ordinary person with recognisable feelings and reactions who is thrown into extraordinary circumstances. It's too easy to make characters fit the story rather than the other way around, and for me the latter is more dramatically satisfying. Different people have different reactions and different shock triggers. There's no set rule on how every single person would react, especially not to 'fantasy' scenarios. We learned that Clara reacted in that way, so that's her personality. You might like or dislike her because of it, but it's not poor writing as much as creating a character with strong and unpredictable emotions. It's also worth factoring fatigue into the equation: the events of Deep Breath lead directly on from those of Time of the Doctor so this has been a very long day for Clara! She's spent the morning with her family, cooked Xmas dinner, been to Trenzalore three times at different points in its history, survived a massive hostile attack by an army of Daleks, seen the Doctor age and die and then come back as a total stranger, travelled back to pre-historic Earth and flee from being attacked by a dinosaur, had a very rough ride in the Ship at the hands of someone who's forgotten how to fly it, landed in Victorian London, and then had all the experiences of the first day of the latest adventure... all in the same day. Yes she's stressed, tired, worn out and intolerant. Again, it's pretty consistent with human nature to become unreasonable and unpredictable when under that much emotional and physical pressure. She's probably running on adrenaline alone until the scene where we see her the next morning leaning out of the window looking chilled and relaxed after a night's exhausted sleep. But just because she does great things and has an outgoing personality that does not mean that she doesn't have any emotional insecurities.
Reversing the polarity of the neutron flow. I bet that means something. It sounds great.

Blake's 7: Trojan Horse (s4 fanfic) - Blake's 7: Through the Needle's Eye (s2 fanfic)

Spaceship Dispatcher's fanfic site
 
Lurena
I'm wondering about the Doctor's face.
Why is he stressing his question about where he got his new face from?
Wasn't it Clara who had an image of the Roman Aurelius hanging on her wall? mmmmm....
Lara&Sue's Blake's 7 stories
*No, I am not. I am not expendable, I'm not stupid, and I'm not going.*
 
http://lectorisalutem.webs.com/
Klenotka
Lurena wrote:

I'm wondering about the Doctor's face.
Why is he stressing his question about where he got his new face from?
Wasn't it Clara who had an image of the Roman Aurelius hanging on her wall? mmmmm....


I believe it is that "low key" addressing the fact that Peter was already on DW as a different character. If played carefully, I think it could really work with that "good man" situation.
 
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