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Dr Who: Deep Breath
President Solvite
Yeah, it was okay..

Early days of course, Capaldi is good, not sure that the story grabbed me too much though.

Okay not great, but passed the time well enough I guess.
 
http://nothingsforgotten.freeforums.net/
JustBrad
It was very good (barely).

Actually parts of it were quite average, but most regen episodes are. The plot was a bit obvious.

Capaldi was brilliant, bringing the overall score to 'very good' for me. I quite liked the ambiguity at the climax, and I hope they NEVER answer the question. (Trying to stay Spoiler Free). I felt the overall writing for the Doctor was very good in this episode, save for a bit of overt sentimentality in the epilogue.

Or as Paula said, "A sixty minute story told in ninety minutes."

Nevertheless, looking forward to a couple of years of this.
Edited by JustBrad on 24 August 2014 04:29:42
 
Thetis
All my points were for Peter Capaldi, as everything else was pretty banal.

I've admired Peter Capaldi for years, and he was every bit as brilliant as I expected. He is masterful as the Doctor, and I can't wait to see where he takes the character. Love, love, love Peter as the Doctor!

I almost hugged the TV when he said "I'm not your boyfriend" to Clara and hope this ends the era of the "love-Doctor". Peter Capaldi is perfectly capable of performing emotional intensity without romantic love. I was also offended by the way the script dwelt on Peter's age. The Doctor has been older than that before; and Peter is perfectly handsome! His wrinkles do not need to be excused or explained away.

The story was very mediocre: scattered and unconvincing. Clara is written too predictably. Let's see how things go next week, as they had a few lose ends to tie up and were starting a new Doctor; so, I'll give them a little lenience this week.

Our broadcast was 4:30am over here. Worth every bit of sleeplessness.
 
Space Chopper
peladon wrote:

Capaldi as classy as one would expect, despite the nonsense he was insulted with. It was a real pity about the writing, because he certainly deserves better. One awful sloppy mess of a story, weak plotline, and heavy handed anti age and anti faith propoganda.

At least we will lose the 'pash' and teenage angst but it doesnt look as if anything else is going to change. Clara? Same predictable, boring, 'look how fiesty I am' dross.


Can we lose the 'impossible girl' and the writers too, then PC might have a chance.

LOL had to smile at the Scots digs though - no one associated with the series on Alex Samonds christmas card list I wouldn't think.


As a certain portly rock star would sing: "You took the words right out of my mouth." I'm probably going to come across as very nit-picky here, but... here goes. I can understand why certain things were done in the episode- keeping Clara and the Paternoster gang as familiar faces to relate to, the scene where Vastra berates Clara for being ageist to the Doctor to second-guess the Tennant fans who'd prefer a pretty boy face, but there was just so much stuff recycled from previous episodes for this to be fresh at all for me. The opening scene with the T.Rex was pointless and jarred with me- it seemed that the Doctor and Clara had already had an adventure before we'd seen them together, and him still suffering post-regenerative trauma- and Clara STILL not getting that this is the same guy? Come ON girl, you saw ALL 11 of his previous incarnations, including the older ones!

Nitpicky alert coming up: As someone who is a bit of a Dinosaur nut, the opening scene was also anachronistic for me, as the only knowledge the public at large had of Dinosaurs at that time were the Crystal Palace statues at the Great Exhibition in 1851, and thanks to the limited knowledge and few fossils we had, they were reconstructed to look like big scaly bears. The first proper book of Dinosaurs that was published was in 1883, called Extinct Monsters And Creatures Of Other Days, by H. Hutchinson (I have a copy), and not everyone would have had a copy or could even read one. Most people would still be dismissive of the idea anyway, because the aftershock of Darwin's On The Origin Of Species was still being felt. Not to mention that the T.Rex wasn't even discovered until 1905, so the public would most likely just think this was either a monster, a demon or a dragon, with only Vastra knowing what it really was.

After being promised so much with regards to returning to some of the older values of Who, I was rather disappointed. Peter and Jenna acted their socks off, but were let down by a script that felt like it was a mid Matt Smith era reject. I know Who in the past used to recycle costumes and props for different stories, but this must be the first time they recycled a script... I wanted to like it, I really tried, but... Sad
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Vila: "I plan to live forever- or die trying..."
 
President Solvite
Just to nit-pick at some nit picks.. Although I am in general agreement here with all the observations made..

Of course it is an alternate universe setting.. (yeah big cop out I know!)

Where perhaps dinosaurs are discovered earlier in time (making them a little more known, although I'm not convinced the authorities would have been able to 'contain it' Silurian device or not.. and T Rex's (assuming it was a T Rex) are larger than in this universe. They are big but not that big in that they could swallow a whole Tardis.

I also take some convincing that your typical Londoner would not gawp at a Silurian in the street.. But then upon reflection on thinking about the appearance of some of our so called celebrities maybe that could work. Pfft

The new graphics sequence is interesting along with music, not sure I like it yet, but of course its still early days. Ask me in a few episodes time!
 
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Spaceship Dispatcher
Well I'm still enjoying Doctor Who absolutely and completely! What I would like to read here are the wishes of those who criticise the show so much, especially those who tear it down quite badly, of what you would like to see as well as the negativity about what you don't like. And please... no generic things like 'better scripts' or 'better characters' but actual specific elements of writing and performance that you think are not there. For me, this is the best period of the show since the Key to Time season; that's just my opinion that's its so good, but I'm interested to know what others want to see in specific terms that isn't there. There is so much emotional depth, wonderful humour, great visual design of sets & costumes etc, and simple traditional story telling at the moment that it ticks every box there is to tick for me at the moment.

It was great to hear Murray Gold's powerful, epic and emotive score blasting out of the sound system of a cinema and it was equally as great to see Jenna on the big screen! There were so many lines and little moments that I loved that I'm going watch it all over again this morning...
Edited by Spaceship Dispatcher on 24 August 2014 09:39:32
Reversing the polarity of the neutron flow. I bet that means something. It sounds great.

Blake's 7: Trojan Horse (s4 fanfic) - Blake's 7: Through the Needle's Eye (s2 fanfic)

Spaceship Dispatcher's fanfic site
 
Klenotka
I liked how slower paced it became after the regeneration state was over.
Jenna and Peter were great together. Jenna had more to do here than in the rest of S7.

As someone who really disliked Smith, I have to say, the scene there didn´t really seem too forced - I guess it was to say to those who started watching with Smith that everything will be OK.

It is difficult to judge anything from one episode, when the Doctor is 30 minutes in post regenerative state. I will never understand this tendency to judge by one episode, especially in DW!

Peter was awesome. His acting is so nuanced. I loved the bit in the TARDIS, where he managed to lead half the dialogue only with his eyes.
I am glad that they moved away from the Impossible Girl, boyfriendy touchy feely stuff and that they dealt with the fact that the Doctor looks older. I take it as saying goodbye to old things and now we will move ahead.

I am slightly ahead, I saw some of the leaked stuff and his timing when he says silly stuff with a serious face, is fantastic.

And as I was never a fan of Moffat´s complicated plots - this season seems less arc heavy, with more character focus and I really think Peter is more his Doctor than Matt was.
 
Gauda Cheese
I'm watching it now and.... I'm not liking him at all so far. Talking and flirting with a Dinosaur? Cringe worthy
http://stwco.word... Stuff and things written by me.

My podcast: http://GATM.buzzs...
 
Klenotka
Gauda Cheese wrote:

I'm watching it now and.... I'm not liking him at all so far. Talking and flirting with a Dinosaur? Cringe worthy


For heaven´ sake....it is virtually like two minutes after the regeneration!
 
Spaceship Dispatcher
Just watched it again, as a double header with Time of the Doctor; a story which I had not rewatched since the original broadcast last Xmas! Interesting how even consecutive episodes can have such a different impact on the individual viewer. There was much that I didn't like about the Xmas special and I never watched the dvd until today despite buying it straight away. I'm going to admit that I liked it a lot more second time around; partly because I realised that it was first 20 mins or so that put me off but that a lot of the slower and more emotive stuff later on was more my scene, and also because we now know what follows on. But anyway, on to further thoughts about Deep Breath after watching the episode for a second time and making notes...

This passed me by on first viewing because it came before the reveal of the robots' origins, but the Doctor riding a horse was a nice nod to The Girl in the Fireplace episode of which this was a sequel! All the wit about the Scots personality was still just as spot on and amusing, especially lines like "I can complain about things!" which had the whole cinema rocking last night! Another scene that drew a massive laugh was Clara being hit by The Times and the comedy fall back into the bedroom, a sketch that was not over done and benefitted from the simplicity of the moment. Likewise, the 'medical' for joining the gang that Strax performs on Clara was gloriously funny because of the way that Jenna and Dan performed it without going over the top. Elsewhere, the way that the creative team approached the age isssue was especially noteworthy and commendable. I was worried about having an older Doctor, not because of concerns about Peter but due to concerns about the fanbase; much of which is of a generation that has grown up with the younger Doctors and for whom it would be a massive culture shock to have an older man in what they would see as a cool, trendy younger man's part. Okay, it isn't. But the show has to consider how such a large percentage of the target audience perceive the show. So for me, the talk about how he can appear old or young and still be the same man inside was vital and very well handled. Part of that of course was built up in the scene with Brian Miller, and it was just as emotional to see that scene second time around; it was such an amazing thing, to bring Brian directly back into the world of Dr Who after such a difficult time for him and Sadie. One scene that I especially enjoy in Deep Breath is the restaurant scene between Peter and Jenna, arguing and bickering but in such a wonderfully humorous way and with some great one liners; in fact the whole episode was loaded with great one liners, but that scene was especially good. The scene where Clara finds herself trapped inside the ship was outstanding imo: the direction, camera work, the use of lighting, and of course Jenna's scared and tense portrayal of Clara were all deeply engaging and moody and genuinely frightening in the way the scene was realised. The glimpse of Clara as a teacher as Coal Hill school was good too. The whole episode was gothic, maccabre and steam punk in a very effective way both in terms of the visuals and the ideas. If they were trying to attract the Twilight audience before with the youthful and sometimes adolescent Doctor/Amy/Rory triangle, they seem to be heading straight for the slightly older Penny Dreadful audience now; but still with a lot of fun and lightness of touch to keep previous fans on board. This episode also reminded me a lot of a low budget but very good 'straight to dvd' fantasy/sf reimagining of Sherlock Holmes from a few years back that starred Torchwood's Gareth David Lloyd as Dr Watson, with quite a few plot and visual similarities. Two final comments for now: the whole don't breath idea is similar to don't blink, taking a normal every day thing and making it scary, which I found very effective; and the music - brilliant, powerful, moving, wonderful music again from Murray and Ben.

How do I rate the episode a day later, and on television rather than the big screen? Still 10/10
Reversing the polarity of the neutron flow. I bet that means something. It sounds great.

Blake's 7: Trojan Horse (s4 fanfic) - Blake's 7: Through the Needle's Eye (s2 fanfic)

Spaceship Dispatcher's fanfic site
 
Gauda Cheese
I hated it. I found the beginning to be cringingly bad what with the Dinosaur and the Doctor translating it. "I'm not flirting" UGH

How did the Dinosaur survive the trip through the vortex? Does this now mean if someone touches the TARDIS exterior as it dematerializes that person also travels through time? And lives?

Then the story went from dumb to slow and never picked back up for me. I yawned and fidgeted and kept looking at the time. I didn't care about the cyborgs and found the whole hold your breath stuff was silly. The character moments never did much for me because I don't really like Clara much or the three others whose names I never remember. You know... Green One, Potato One and Annoying Voice One.

I don't as yet see what the fuss is about with Peter Capaldi, this was the first thing I've seen him in and he didn't wow me. Early days though.

What I want from TV WHO? Um Why can't it be as good as Big Finish? Why can't the show create interesting companions comparable to Evelyn Smythe, Hex, Oliver? And I know the new show can't do the 4 part format of the classic era, but BF have done many hour long Who stories that are just more fun and better written. More consistent and no love angles or screwdriver waving.

Thats about as detailed as I can be bothered right now. I'm tired and to cheer myself up I'm going to watch some South park.
http://stwco.word... Stuff and things written by me.

My podcast: http://GATM.buzzs...
 
Klenotka
I rewatched it, after yesterday´s cinema (awesome) experience, at home. The first part is a little slow, the comedy is basically written for 11, who was still a shadow because of the regeneration. But after 12 and Clara met at the restaurant, everything was fine.

Clara and 12 may become my favourite Doctor/companion relationship in the new series so far. She doesn´t hold back, their verbal exchanges are refershing from the constant smitten companions and Peter became the Doctor right after the "shushu" scene Smile

I have always tried, really, really tried to dislike the Paternoster gang. They are obviously there to entertain but I have to say, it made sense here - just like The Robot - old stuff guiding to new stuff. To assure fans (many of whom maybe started DW with Smith and this was their first regeneration) that he is still the Doctor, despite the change of face.

There were also many subtle moments - Doctor translating the Dinosaur, when you don´t know if he actually translates or talks about himself...when he says to the droid guy that "he doesn´t know where the face came from," and then sees his own image in the mirror, without any clue who he is or what happened.

The idea of Doctor looking for himself is not original in the short scheme - he is always confused and in a few episodes, tries to find himself. But this seems to be a little recurring theme, especially because this is essentially the first regeneration from the first cycle.

It is also necessary to remember - before judging - that as those who were growing up on the classic, there are new fans who discovered the show recently. I watched it in 2008 for the first time and I am naive enough to call myself an "older" fan.

Peter will be brilliant, his acting is always very nuanced and he did not disappoint here. I am happy to see that Jenna got more to do here and her acting got better thanks to Peter. As I said, they are perfect together.
 
peladon
Moffat is a fan writer and IMO not one of the better kinds. He has the same obsessions as certain types of fan writers and uses characters and plot devices in the same way.

Now that’s fine in a fandom where writer and reader are (generally) in it for the same sorts of reasons and want to visit and revisit certain types of themes, but it is not fine when you are writing for a mass audience and using public money to pay for it.
 
Spaceship Dispatcher
As promised last week, here is a short fanfic that I wrote this afternoon as a prequel to the episode...

Deep Breath Prequel

“Stay calm” said the man; “just one question... do you happen to know how to fly this thing?”

Clara stared back at him, her mind still racing at the events of the last few moments. The Doctor had been rejuvenated, but also still the weary old man she had spent those last precious moments with up in the clock tower. He had seemed ill; distracted as though talking to someone that was no longer there, with moments of clarity and of staring vacantly at the raised metal gantry. Then in a flash, a burst of some kind energy that happened too fast for her to comprehend what actually happened, he was gone. In his place had stood this man; older and with a completely different manner. Clara was good with people, which was why she had become a teacher, and yet this man made her feel a deep discomfort that unsettled her. Yes, the Doctor could change his form. She had seen glimpses of his former personas in a strange void on their first visit to Trenzalore, and had met and shared an adventure with three of him at the same time only a very short time ago. But to actually see this take place was strange in an unreal sort of way; a bizarre unreality even by the standards of her own fantastic life. More than that, it shook her that her own Doctor had gone. She desperately wanted to talk to him about what was happening, but he wasn’t there; would never be there. Instead, this new man – this new Doctor, though she felt sure she would never get used the concept – was actually asking her questions! Of course she did not know how to fly the Ship...

“What?” demanded Clara, hotly; “you mean you’ve forgotten how to fly the Tardis?!”

“Well, in case you had not noticed...” said the Doctor, glowering angrily at Clara; “there have been a few things going on lately! Out there, somewhere... whatever they might have been...”

“You don’t remember any of it, do you?” asked Clara, staring into his intense but confused eyes.

“It’s all gone!” shouted the Doctor; “it’s all in the past... what’s in the present is... well, the Ship is out of control for a start! Now you tell me... Martha! What are you going to do about it?”

“Who’s Martha? No! Don’t bother... how could you forget how to fly the Tardis? You had it with you all the time! Why couldn’t you... I don’t know! Go out and collect the shopping in it or something?”

“Because I didn’t need to do any shopping, they brought everything to me! And by the time that... whatever it was happened... it was probably too late to shop for Christmas!”

“How about the January sales then?!” retorted Clara, then squealed as the Ship tilted and she fell to the floor. Everything on the console stopped moving and flashing. The motion of the floor stopped.

“Oh good” stated the Doctor brusquely, “we seem to have landed. A lot of help you were.”

“But you never showed me...” whispered Clara desperately from the floor, pulling herself up as the Doctor walked out of the doors; “Hey! Where are you going? Come back...”

Clara opened the outside door of the Ship and was confronted by a wall of lush but impenetrable foliage. She pushed some huge ferns aside and stepped forwards but, as she reached out for the next green barrier before her, the ferns slapped back and struck her around the head. Stumbling forwards, she found herself on her knees in the soft earth with ferns and a tangled mass of strands from some all enveloping plant closing in above her and pushing her down beneath them. As she rolled onto her back, with her arms across her face for protection and wondering where the Doctor could possibly have gone, there came a deafening roar through the trees a short distance away.

“Hey!” shouted the unfamiliar voice of the man who used to be the Doctor; “you, whatever your name is! Get back into the Ship! There’s a dinosaur chasing me! Where are you?”

Clara crawled back the few yards to the base of the Tardis. “Doctor... I’m here! Don’t leave!”

The man appeared from around the side of the Tardis where the undergrowth was not as thick and opened the doors. Clara crawled inside and, as soon as she was inside and with the doors closing behind her, looked behind her and up at the creature that towered over them. Her last vision of the gigantic beast was of its jaws descending rapidly towards the Ship. The Doctor was working the controls yet, even before the time rotor began to move once more within the central console, she felt the floor move.

“Doctor!” called Clara, getting up from the floor and trying to straighten her hair and clothes; “did you feel...”

“Yes...” barked the Doctor; “did I feel what? No, I didn’t. Look, there’s a dinosaur chasing me and I need to give it the slip, okay? So... what does this control do? You don’t know either do you? Oh well... one way to...”

The floor rocked and rolled, causing Clara to lose her balance again while the Doctor held on grimly to the console. She could hear the Tardis struggling to pull itself through the vortex, but finally the motion stopped. There was a loud knock at the door. The Doctor sighed deeply, let go of the console and strode past Clara.

Opening the outer doors, the Doctor leaned outside and whispered “sshhh!!” before slamming them closed.

Reversing the polarity of the neutron flow. I bet that means something. It sounds great.

Blake's 7: Trojan Horse (s4 fanfic) - Blake's 7: Through the Needle's Eye (s2 fanfic)

Spaceship Dispatcher's fanfic site
 
JustBrad
Klenotka wrote:

I liked how slower paced it became after the regeneration state was over.
Jenna and Peter were great together. Jenna had more to do here than in the rest of S7.



True. Once Peter left the alley with his new (old) coat, it settled down in to good Who, a bit mysterious, a bit dark, and a bit humorous, only fall back on sentimentality at the end. I did not like the phone call from 11 to Clara, though I can see why it may have been put in. There has been a LOT of hype for series 8. I'm sure BBC in general (and BBC America in particular) hope to draw new viewers. The phone call offers of an explanation for the acolytes, and let's face it, we were all new and slightly confused DW fans at one point in our lives. Even Paula was confused when 4 regenerated into 5.
 
BradPaula
Yes, I was a bit confused by my first regeneration. Here I had just gotten into Doctor Who with Tom Baker and he up and regenerates into Tristian from All Creatures Great and Small! Immediately calling Brad, he explained that they changed actors every so often and that I'd get used to it. I did.

As for Peter Capaldi's first Doctor Who episode... I think the first hour was wasted doing silly things. Yes, I understand the act of regenerating often un-hinges a Time Lord, but speaking to a T.Rex (a giant Godzilla one at that) and riding a horse and making references to his eyebrows (which I admit I loved) and veiled references to Scotland and it's possible breaking away from the UK... and a host of other things, it finally calmed down and we got to see a more classic take on the new Doctor. He had a proper villain to defeat and did so although we don't find out if the villain jumped or did the Doctor push? We should never be told what happened and why. Once it settled down I really enjoyed seeing Capaldi and Coleman. There is vast potential there and I for one am looking forward to seeing him without all the silliness of a regeneration story. And what a breath of fresh air to hear him say he's not Clara's boyfriend, or isn't the hugging type. So we loose some fan girls, so what? We want the Doctor to be alien person we look up to and learn from, not a piece of fan girl beef cake. Well, that's my opinion. Bring on the Daleks. -Paula
Zil: Oneness must resist the Host.
 
Klenotka
JustBrad wrote:

Klenotka wrote:

I liked how slower paced it became after the regeneration state was over.
Jenna and Peter were great together. Jenna had more to do here than in the rest of S7.



True. Once Peter left the alley with his new (old) coat, it settled down in to good Who, a bit mysterious, a bit dark, and a bit humorous, only fall back on sentimentality at the end. I did not like the phone call from 11 to Clara, though I can see why it may have been put in. There has been a LOT of hype for series 8. I'm sure BBC in general (and BBC America in particular) hope to draw new viewers. The phone call offers of an explanation for the acolytes, and let's face it, we were all new and slightly confused DW fans at one point in our lives. Even Paula was confused when 4 regenerated into 5.


11 was my least favourite actor so I felt a bit cheated that they added him there but I can *understand* it. The show is very popular even worldwide, got a lots of new fans during Smith era (sadly, so those fans think the Doctor is supposed to be a goofy clown like him), so they had to address that. I am glad that already next episode starts establishing the new Doctor as himself.
 
BradPaula
I suppose this should be in the Mad, Sad thread, but I could not help laughing a bit every time I saw the cyborg with the half-human face. I kept thinking back to the cyborg Avalon when Avon took off her face plate to try and reprogram her. That's right- the Doctor Who cyborg was Avalon's long lost brother. Sad.... -Paula
Zil: Oneness must resist the Host.
 
Travisina
BradPaula wrote:

I kept thinking back to the cyborg Avalon when Avon took off her face plate to try and reprogram her. That's right- the Doctor Who cyborg was Avalon's long lost brother. Sad.... -Paula

I was thinking exactly the same thing, followed by haven't special fx come a long way!
Twitter: @TravisinaB7
Tumblr: tumblr
There's no point being grown up if you can't be childish sometimes
 
President Solvite
Whilst I like the new fx, care has to be taken that the skill of competent story telling isn't lost. I think there is a little too much obsession with fx in many series at the expense of other factors. (not just in Who but in other series)

Who was never about good fx more on the characters and story. It should be a good romp though. Whilst last nights effort was not the best imo it is early days and hopefully it will find its own level in due course.

It earns from me a PS score of 6/10.. (ie. bit run of the mill, drags in a few places, but passes the time pleasantly enough. PC was definitely the right choice for the Doctor in my view, I did see some echoes of Pertwee at several moments which gets a thumbs up from me)
 
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