Login

Username

Password



Not a rebel yet?
CLICK HERE to register.

Forgotten your password?
Request a new one from Orac HERE.

Current User Info

· Lurkers Lurking: 9

· Rebels Active: 0

· Total Rebels: 923
· Newest Rebel: Jon Crockford

Login Help

If you are having problems logging in, please bear in mind that if you originally registered at the site before 8th January 2014 and you haven't re-registered since that date your old login details will no longer work. If this is the case, please re-register, preferably with your former username. If you are having trouble with the registration process itself, try looking HERE and HERE for help and advice. If you need further assistance, please do CONTACT us.

Current Poll

Who is your Favourite Guest Rebel?

Avalon - (Project Avalon)
Avalon - (Project Avalon)
18% [17 Votes]

Selma - (Horizon)
Selma - (Horizon)
5% [5 Votes]

Tyce - (Bounty)
Tyce - (Bounty)
14% [14 Votes]

Norm One - (Redemption)
Norm One - (Redemption)
2% [2 Votes]

Bek - (Shadow)
Bek - (Shadow)
7% [7 Votes]

Kasabi - (Pressure Point)
Kasabi - (Pressure Point)
19% [18 Votes]

Hal Mellanby - (Aftermath)
Hal Mellanby - (Aftermath)
14% [14 Votes]

Hunda - (Traitor)
Hunda - (Traitor)
5% [5 Votes]

Deva - (Blake)
Deva - (Blake)
9% [9 Votes]

Other
Other
6% [6 Votes]

Votes: 97
Login to vote.
Started: 09 July 2016

Polls Archive

Forum Activity

Newest Articles

B7 Images

+ Cookies +

The Horizon website uses cookies to allow user log-in and navigation. The site does not host advertising that requires the use of third-party cookies. Registering as a member of this site implies your consent to the use of cookies.

View Thread

 Print Thread
Kerr Avon
Rodney
I can't pay the character of Kerr Avon a higher compliment than to say that while Blake's 7 continued and evolved without Roj Blake, it could never have survived with Avon. In my opinion, he is the only irreplaceable character, the John Steed of Blake's 7.
Vila: Where are all the good guys?
Blake: You could be looking at them.
Avon: What a depressing thought!
 
Spaceship Dispatcher
Rodney wrote:

...it could never have survived without Avon. In my opinion, he is the only irreplaceable character, the John Steed of Blake's 7.

Except Steed left the girls to wear all the leather... Oops
Reversing the polarity of the neutron flow. I bet that means something. It sounds great.

Blake's 7: Trojan Horse (s4 fanfic) - Blake's 7: Through the Needle's Eye (s2 fanfic)

Spaceship Dispatcher's fanfic site
 
Rodney
Very true! Somehow it suits Avon better I think.
Vila: Where are all the good guys?
Blake: You could be looking at them.
Avon: What a depressing thought!
 
Lurena
Reading February Word Prompt stories, questions came to my mind;
This is one of them:

How many times did Avon lie?
His actor claims Avon is an extremely honest man ("if he says he'll kill you, he will do so).
I know he lied about being married to Dayna in order to safely board Liberator again while Federation had taken the ship.

Any thoughts?
.
Lara&Sue's Blake's 7 stories
*No, I am not. I am not expendable, I'm not stupid, and I'm not going.*
 
http://lectorisalutem.webs.com/
Anniew
Lurena. How many times did Avon lie?

I think you can be honest and lie as long as you don't kid yourself that your lies are justified by anything other than self-interest. Avon never claims to be motivated by anything else so in my book he's honest. He lies several times, in Assassin, during Orbit but not very well. He doesn't lie to the crew, just doesn't tell them what's going on (Terminal/Blake) and when he threatens to kill Tarrant, Cally ( the telepath) confirms he means it.
Avon never seems to suffer any moral angst ( unlike Blake) . His one rule seems to be If you promise something, do it. So in Assassin he reluctantly takes Nebrox with him when he cries You promised. His searching for Blake only makes sense in the context of his having sealed a bargain with Blake to take him to Earth in exchange for the Liberator and so he searches for him to keep his end of the deal. He's angry with Blake in Spacefall because he doesn't keep his end of the bargain and take the London and reminds Servalan You promised me Blake on Terminal.
I think Avon is a truly dangerous man in that lying is something he would take for granted if it was in his self interest and giving his word and keeping it is important only for the same reason. He applies both rules implacably. The only time he let himself care more for someone else's life than his own was with Anna and he describes himself as a fool for doing so.
Of course the fascination for us ladies ( and a few gents
too to judge by some of the fan fiction out there) is whether we could ever persuade him to become a fool again!
Avon could be an emotionally damaged person, a con man, a mobster, or a ruthless spy -even all of these together- which is why his character is so wonderful to write about.
Just because I can't sing doesn't mean I won't.
 
trevor travis
Anniew wrote:
Of course the fascination for us ladies ( and a few gents too to judge by some of the fan fiction out there) is whether we could ever persuade him to become a fool again!


I see the challenge, but a lot of women want to “change” their man, and it’s not really possible. Avon is who he is.

I agree that Avon is dangerous. In particular, he would be dangerous for any woman to be involved with. We see several examples where Avon is rough and uses violence towards women throughout the series. Some, perhaps, may be justified by the need to survive, but others are not. There’s quite a strong possibility that Avon would be abusive in a relationship. He’s certainly not a gentleman in any shape or form.
 
trevor travis
Lurena wrote:

Reading February Word Prompt stories, questions came to my mind;
This is one of them:

How many times did Avon lie?
His actor claims Avon is an extremely honest man ("if he says he'll kill you, he will do so).
I know he lied about being married to Dayna in order to safely board Liberator again while Federation had taken the ship.

Any thoughts?
.


An "honest man" doesn’t really equate to the thief and liar that we see on screen.

Virtually the first piece on information we are given on Avon is how we tried to embezzle millions out of the Federation banking system. And he doesn’t change. In Gambit, he and Vila cheat their way to millions on Freedom City. Does Avon come clean about this? No, he and Vila hide what they’ve been up to, to Blake, Jenna and Cally.

Avon is a complex man, and there are times he does show a certain sense of honour e.g. to Neebrox.

But he’ll lie and cheat without thinking about it twice.
 
Anniew
Trevor you equate honesty with honour and good and evil, I see it as admitting what you are. Avon is an honest self-serving bastard ( he tells everyone this often enough) who has a code of practice like many professional criminals. Many successful thieves wouldn't dream of robbing an old lady. He doesn't fess up to Blake because he has no reason to. He hasn't stolen anything from Blake and he knows Blake will steal the money for a cause Avon has never claimed to support.
The world in which Blake's lot live is increasingly amoral as evinced by Servalan. The days of Star Killer and Le Grand , where there was honour are over and the best the ordinary person can achieve is to abide by some sort of code unless, like Blake, they have a taste for heroic self-sacrifice for a cause.
It always interests me that Vila, who has no code and sells his fellow travellers out whenever he's threatened, is often seen as a lovable rogue and Avon as a heartless monster. In Orbit, if Avon had been standing near the air lock, Vila by the controls and Orac had said, Avon weighs 75 kilos what do we think might have happened?
Just because I can't sing doesn't mean I won't.
 
trevor travis
Anniew wrote:
It always interests me that Vila, who has no code and sells his fellow travellers out whenever he's threatened, is often seen as a lovable rogue and Avon as a heartless monster. In Orbit, if Avon had been standing near the air lock, Vila by the controls and Orac had said, Avon weighs 75 kilos what do we think might have happened?


Vila couldn’t have done it – he’d have more likely thrown Orac out! Grin

Vila’s number of “kills” is almost non-existent. He accidentally stabs someone in “Cygnus Alpha” (and looks horrified), and doesn’t shoot anyone until “Games”.

Although I would argue against Vila being a coward, he finds it much harder to take a human life than e.g. Avon, Soolin or Dayna, all of whom kill without a second thought. I can't see Vila being capable of killing a fellow crew member.

I wouldn't say Vila is a "lovable rogue" but he is the crew member that I find it easiest to identify with.

As for "sells his fellow travellers out whenever he's threatened", I can't recall Vila ever contacting Servalan, in the way that Avon does in "Hostage". So much for Avon's code. But as I said before, Avon is a complex man. At times, Avon will honour an agreement. Other times, his word is worth absolutely nothing.

I'm not saying he's a heartless monster, but he certainly cannot be trusted, while he has several very unpleasant personality traits.
Edited by trevor travis on 10 February 2015 12:20:26
 
Anniew
Trevor. He wouldn't have had to have been hands on would he - just punch a button. I bet he could have done that. He was pretty nifty on the neutron blasters which must have killed a fair few. I'd forgotten Avon contacts Servalan in Hostage but I'm also not sure how this breaks his code. Did he ever give his word not to? I'm not trying to argue that Avon is likeable just that he is honest ( up front if you prefer) about who and what he is. And Vila, although likable is less trustworthy. At least with Avon you know you're on your own! Or that if you hang on to his coat tails you might just survive.
Just because I can't sing doesn't mean I won't.
 
trevor travis
Anniew wrote:
Or that if you hang on to his coat tails you might just survive.


Although that rarely happens in the series. Associate yourself with Avon and he'll get you killed... one way or the other... eventually. Ironic that he often criticises Blake for taking risks, then takes bigger ones himself. Pfft

And I still don't think he can be trusted. He promises Shrinker a way out and then leaves him stranded.
 
Anniew
Difficult to see how he can avoid those bigger risks in season 4, without the Liberator and its self renewing power and repair But even so I'm not entirely convinced by my own argument. I mean Terminal is a bit crazy even if he does like to keep his word! On the other hand, if you are constantly roaming the universe like some galactic Flying Dutchman can you really turn up the opportunity to get your hands on something to make you both invincible AND rich? To a gambler like Avon, irresistable temptation?

Anyway that's probably enough from me so I'll shut up now!
except: he DID offer Shrinker a way out and it WAS more merciful than letting him slowly die in agony as Shrinker did to his victims. Tortured to death or suicide? Umm suicide please.
That's it. Zipped!
Just because I can't sing doesn't mean I won't.
 
littlesue
@TT and Anniew

I have to agree with Anniew on this, Avon did offer Shrinker way out...starve or shoot himself.
Cold.....you don't know the meaning of cold.
Cold is when you have ice on the INSIDE of the window!!!


sues stories http://sjlittle.w...
sues youtube channel http://www.youtub...e54/videos
sues book shelf https://www.media...ne%20Shelf
rebel run video http://www.youtub...prqS-XZtLo
Lara and Sue's Stories http://lectorisal....webs.com/
 
trevor travis
littlesue wrote:

@TT and Anniew

I have to agree with Anniew on this, Avon did offer Shrinker way out...starve or shoot himself.


Great choice there then Grin

But that's hardly a way out, so Avon did break his word on this occasion. Maybe Shrinker deserved it, but Avon failed to live up to his promise.
 
littlesue
trevor travis wrote:

littlesue wrote:

@TT and Anniew

I have to agree with Anniew on this, Avon did offer Shrinker way out...starve or shoot himself.


Great choice there then Grin

But that's hardly a way out, so Avon did break his word on this occasion. Maybe Shrinker deserved it, but Avon failed to live up to his promise.


SHRINKER What's in it for me?
AVON A way out.
He didn't actually specify what the way out actually was...Shrinker assumed Avon meant 'I'll let you go'....

Wrong!!!!
Cold.....you don't know the meaning of cold.
Cold is when you have ice on the INSIDE of the window!!!


sues stories http://sjlittle.w...
sues youtube channel http://www.youtub...e54/videos
sues book shelf https://www.media...ne%20Shelf
rebel run video http://www.youtub...prqS-XZtLo
Lara and Sue's Stories http://lectorisal....webs.com/
 
peladon
The difficulty with discussing Avon's character across all four series is that he doesnt exist in a consistant form across all four series. There are two men represented, one in S1-3 and a different man in S4. There are some blips in both but they are largely consistent within their series context. My observation of discussions about his character is that many fans want to extrapolate from one to the other, but in fact you cant because there is no valid path from one man to the other. Its quite unusual, in most episodic series there are enough points of contact, even with various writers, for some form of composite to be forged but in this case there isnt. Avon series 1-3 is one type of man and Avon series 4 is another.

But its great fun trying to retrofit the differences into something that makes some form of sense.
 
trevor travis
peladon wrote:

The difficulty with discussing Avon's character across all four series is that he doesnt exist in a consistant form across all four series. There are two men represented, one in S1-3 and a different man in S4. There are some blips in both but they are largely consistent within their series context. My observation of discussions about his character is that many fans want to extrapolate from one to the other, but in fact you cant because there is no valid path from one man to the other. Its quite unusual, in most episodic series there are enough points of contact, even with various writers, for some form of composite to be forged but in this case there isnt. Avon series 1-3 is one type of man and Avon series 4 is another.


I don't buy that at all, Avon is very one much character across the four series.

It's still the same actor playing him, and still the same people writing the scripts, plus there's plenty of precedents on the way he acts in the opening three series that are picked up in the final series.
 
BradPaula
I have to agree with Trevor Travis. Avon is the same character throughout the four series, although we see a progression, or is that a digression in behavior caused by circumstance, stress and his own unique and oftentimes abrasive and secretive nature. Blake may have been the title character, but Avon took over and became such a fascinating study in human behavior, we could not keep our eyes off of him. And 30 odd years later, we are still talking and debating about it!
Zil: Oneness must resist the Host.
 
Ela
BradPaula wrote:

I have to agree with Trevor Travis. Avon is the same character throughout the four series, although we see a progression, or is that a digression in behavior caused by circumstance, stress and his own unique and oftentimes abrasive and secretive nature. Blake may have been the title character, but Avon took over and became such a fascinating study in human behavior, we could not keep our eyes off of him. And 30 odd years later, we are still talking and debating about it!


Yup. I agree that Avon is the same character throughout, though he does change.

And definitely the most interesting character in the series.
 
trevor travis
BradPaula wrote:

I have to agree with Trevor Travis. Avon is the same character throughout the four series, although we see a progression, or is that a digression in behavior caused by circumstance, stress and his own unique and oftentimes abrasive and secretive nature. Blake may have been the title character, but Avon took over and became such a fascinating study in human behavior, we could not keep our eyes off of him. And 30 odd years later, we are still talking and debating about it!


Paula, it is compelling the way that his character develops and shifts over 51 episodes, which is why I still have him down as a “favourite character” even though I don’t particularly like him at times!

For example we have “Orbit”, which is a fascinating but horrifying episode to watch. Vila is like the “control” of an experiment in this episode, as Robert Holmes writes him as the same manner as in “Killer” and “Gambit”. In contrast, he writes a developed Avon, taking into account everything that he has happened to him in the meantime, therefore showing the effect to this character development on his relationship with Vila (and it’s not pretty). It’s a brilliant example of why Robert Holmes was one of the genre’s best-ever writers.

We see everything that makes the man we see in the final season, such as taking on the increasing burden of the responsibility of leadership (something Avon thought he wanted, but be careful of what you wish for!), his betrayal at the hands of Anna Grant, and making mistakes in “Terminal” that ended up with such a high cost, including taking away Cally, the one person who seemed to be able to get through to him.

The Avon of “Warlord” and “Blake” is much developed from that of “Space Fall”, but he’s still the same man.
 
Jump to Forum:
Orac rendered this page in 0.62 seconds
9,819,244 unique visits since 8th January 2014