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Current Poll

Who is your Favourite Guest Rebel?

Avalon - (Project Avalon)
Avalon - (Project Avalon)
18% [17 Votes]

Selma - (Horizon)
Selma - (Horizon)
5% [5 Votes]

Tyce - (Bounty)
Tyce - (Bounty)
15% [14 Votes]

Norm One - (Redemption)
Norm One - (Redemption)
2% [2 Votes]

Bek - (Shadow)
Bek - (Shadow)
6% [6 Votes]

Kasabi - (Pressure Point)
Kasabi - (Pressure Point)
19% [18 Votes]

Hal Mellanby - (Aftermath)
Hal Mellanby - (Aftermath)
14% [13 Votes]

Hunda - (Traitor)
Hunda - (Traitor)
5% [5 Votes]

Deva - (Blake)
Deva - (Blake)
9% [9 Votes]

Other
Other
6% [6 Votes]

Votes: 95
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Started: 09 July 2016

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Kerr Avon
Achilles
As I'm in receipt of several of "The Liberator Chronicles", as well as the DVD boxed set, and "Lucifer", I'm well catered for during my recovery. I'm watching series 1, (lost none of it's charm) while I do my daily exercise bike routine.

Avon is still my favourite!!!

Watching it reminded me that my father named our dishwasher "Zen", & could be heard in the kitchen saying "Do the washing up Zen".we would then hear "confirmed" (in a reasonable impression of Zen)!!
 
magnificat
trevor travis wrote:

Spaceship Dispatcher wrote:

JustBrad wrote:

S4 is almost more of a spin off than a continuation.

Well said. GrinAngry


But wrong. There are 52 official episodes of B7, not 39.

And "Terminal" as a one-off final episode just doesn't work for me, there's no build up at all, in what way for example does "Death-Watch" led into "Terminal"?

Whereas Season D is a proper conclusion to the series, with "Blake" marking the end of an arc running across Season D. Although Season C is my favourite season, I don't see it as a satisfactory conclusion to the story. IMO Season D is a satisfactory conclusion.


I'm 15 minutes into the "Terminal" episode, and I have to say I don't understand how things would change so much from the previous episode. Episodes 5-12 of season C saw the relationship between Cally and Avon growing nicely, the crew slowly becoming more relaxed, Avon and Tarrant gradually working through their differences. I loved the camaraderie between the crew that had developed by "Death-Watch"...

Now Avon's suddenly started threatening people with guns and threatening to kill anyone who follows him (including Cally!)?
Edited by magnificat on 18 March 2014 18:16:25
 
Lurena
Wow! I have been too busy lately and could not join the discussions, I need some time to read them all, but I want to thank you all for your replies so far!

Just to let you know a bit of my view on the Avon character: In my opinion he is an above intelligent, very proud of his skills, courageous and most honest man, forced by fate to live the life with the people and in places he didn't select. An uncertain factor in his calculations. As he has nowhere else to go he tries to make the best of it in order to survive. I think this makes him cautious and reluctant to take responsibilities and reluctant to show his emotions. He uses cynicism in attempt to get some grip on events. He often says the opposite to his actions. He does care for others, you can argue he does only in order to survive and not for personal reasons, but I think he needs people. Originally he didn't kill, and I believe he truly didn't know if he would be able to do so. ( after all he wasn't able to check the visa's man) Later on he only kills when his life is at stake.
He was thief criminal in the first place, not a murderer.

Script and Mr Darrow's interpretation make Avon complex and very interesting.

I have read Mr Darrow's interviews where he says the actor's wish is to portray Avon a hard man. I think that would take a lot of Avon's famous mystery away. At least for me...

So far.
Just ignore me and please get on with your discussions and other postings here.
Lara&Sue's Blake's 7 stories
*No, I am not. I am not expendable, I'm not stupid, and I'm not going.*
 
http://lectorisalutem.webs.com/
peladon
trevor travis wrote:

Spaceship Dispatcher wrote:

JustBrad wrote:

S4 is almost more of a spin off than a continuation.

Well said. GrinAngry


But wrong. There are 52 official episodes of B7, not 39.

And "Terminal" as a one-off final episode just doesn't work for me, there's no build up at all, in what way for example does "Death-Watch" led into "Terminal"?

Whereas Season D is a proper conclusion to the series, with "Blake" marking the end of an arc running across Season D. Although Season C is my favourite season, I don't see it as a satisfactory conclusion to the story. IMO Season D is a satisfactory conclusion.


I agree that Terminal is a little out of the blue, the only thing that makes sense of Avons actions are a. that he is very tired and b. he really does think that finding Blake might kill them all. However I dont agree about S4 in general and about 'Blake' specifically. There is no arc that leads to GP, in fact there is no arc that is discernable at all, far less than for Terminal. S4 has all the disjointed elements of S3 but with a lot less justification. There should be an arc to lead up to that episode, there should be an arc across the whole thing given that its far more static than the previous series, but there isnt one.
 
peladon

I wasn't really meaning to say that Avon was altruistic - just that I see him as far from quasi-sociopathic.

I haven't seen Season 4 yet. Apparently Avon changes quite a lot during it from what I've read.


S4 Avon is not the same man IMO given then there is logical or realistic development that would take hin from S3 to S4, even less form S1 to S4 - however you must juge for yourself.

I'd agree that there is nothing sociopathic about Avon S1-3, given his abilities, his take on life and the situation he is a perfectly valid construct of 'normal' human being.
 
peladon
trevor travis wrote:

Grade Four Ignorant wrote:

Not only does his personality change in Season D, but he also replaces his bowl cut with a lovely blow dried quiff.


Avon develops farily consistently across all four series. IMO there are one-or-two episodes where he's not quite right, but these actually take place in Season C, where Avon is almost portrayed as the hero. Paul Darrow felt this wasn't quite right, spoke to Vere Lorrimer, who agreed that Avon should return more to his anti-hero status in Season D. I'm sure Paul says something along these lines in the interview in the Tony Attwood Programme Guide, the show's bible (Attwood wrote two B7 books, one fantastic, one... er... well not!!!).

In some ways, Season D Avon is much like Season B Avon. But with more power. With tragic results.


Sorry no, there isnt a psychologically valid path that would take Avon from where he is in S3 to where he is even early on in S4. Avon of S3 is a valid continuation of the man from S1/2 given the change in circumstances ( though the Anna business is nonsensical purple plotting). So the significant changes in S4 are not 'normal' and therefore cant be considered consistent. Drugs might do it, brain damage might, some forms of abnomal events related to certain types of illness, but nothing within his story as we have been told it up to that point As we have no reason to believe he is sufferring from any of those......
 
trevor travis
peladon wrote:
( though the Anna business is nonsensical purple plotting).


And there was little me thinking "Rumours" was one of the best-ever episodes of televsion, rather than it being "nonsensical". Grin
 
peladon
trevor travis wrote:

peladon wrote:
( though the Anna business is nonsensical purple plotting).


And there was little me thinking "Rumours" was one of the best-ever episodes of televsion, rather than it being "nonsensical". Grin


Really? Why ever would you think that.
 
trevor travis
peladon wrote:

trevor travis wrote:

peladon wrote:
( though the Anna business is nonsensical purple plotting).


And there was little me thinking "Rumours" was one of the best-ever episodes of televsion, rather than it being "nonsensical". Grin


Really? Why ever would you think that.


The combination of truly outstanding dialogue, outstanding acting (Paul Darrow's finest hour) and a remarkable script from Chris Boucher. Plus "Rumours" even has very good production vaules; especially for B7 (Fiona Cumming has a real flair for directing this kind of programme). All-in-all, a flawless and very strong production.
 
Spaceship Dispatcher
Rumours demonstrates what fans of the show often say is one of the series main strengths: its entirely a character drama, albeit set within a fantasy future. The only fantasy elements are those that are part of the ongoing formula like the speculative version of the future, teleport and other sf maguffin. But that plot doesn't involve any aliens or outer-space phenomena, its a very recognisable story type.
Reversing the polarity of the neutron flow. I bet that means something. It sounds great.

Blake's 7: Trojan Horse (s4 fanfic) - Blake's 7: Through the Needle's Eye (s2 fanfic)

Spaceship Dispatcher's fanfic site
 
trevor travis
Spaceship Dispatcher wrote:

Rumours demonstrates what fans of the show often say is one of the series main strengths: its entirely a character drama, albeit set within a fantasy future. The only fantasy elements are those that are part of the ongoing formula like the speculative version of the future, teleport and other sf maguffin. But that plot doesn't involve any aliens or outer-space phenomena, its a very recognisable story type.


SD, you like "Rumours" then?
 
littlesue
trevor travis wrote:

peladon wrote:

trevor travis wrote:

peladon wrote:
( though the Anna business is nonsensical purple plotting).


And there was little me thinking "Rumours" was one of the best-ever episodes of televsion, rather than it being "nonsensical". Grin


Really? Why ever would you think that.


The combination of truly outstanding dialogue, outstanding acting (Paul Darrow's finest hour) and a remarkable script from Chris Boucher. Plus "Rumours" even has very good production vaules; especially for B7 (Fiona Cumming has a real flair for directing this kind of programme). All-in-all, a flawless and very strong production.


I have to agree with tt here. Rumours is one of the best, if not the best, episode of B7. And I'm not too sure about the 'Anna business being nonsensical purple plotting'.
Anna is an underlying thread throughout series A, B, and C. (I don't know it that was intentional by Mr Nation, but it is, to me, the driving force behind Avon).
I think the sudden discovery that he had been betrayed by Anna was the start of Avon's downward slide. That and learning he had been duped by Servalan in 'Terminal' into believing that Blake was alive (and how she gloated on that!) coupled with Cally's death almost immediately after was the turning point.
No doubt this could be argued over for another 35 years.
We were doing it back in the 80's, but all I do know is that I sat in a room with a large TV watching Rumours, back in 1985, with many other B7 fans who all wept at the end. This episode, to us, was the defining moment...and we all loved it, so much so, that they had it on a continous loop!
Cold.....you don't know the meaning of cold.
Cold is when you have ice on the INSIDE of the window!!!


sues stories http://sjlittle.w...
sues youtube channel http://www.youtub...e54/videos
sues book shelf https://www.media...ne%20Shelf
rebel run video http://www.youtub...prqS-XZtLo
Lara and Sue's Stories http://lectorisal....webs.com/
 
Spaceship Dispatcher
trevor travis wrote:

SD, you like "Rumours" then?


#1 favourite episode Grin
Reversing the polarity of the neutron flow. I bet that means something. It sounds great.

Blake's 7: Trojan Horse (s4 fanfic) - Blake's 7: Through the Needle's Eye (s2 fanfic)

Spaceship Dispatcher's fanfic site
 
magnificat
peladon wrote:

trevor travis wrote:

Spaceship Dispatcher wrote:

JustBrad wrote:

S4 is almost more of a spin off than a continuation.

Well said. GrinAngry


But wrong. There are 52 official episodes of B7, not 39.

And "Terminal" as a one-off final episode just doesn't work for me, there's no build up at all, in what way for example does "Death-Watch" led into "Terminal"?

Whereas Season D is a proper conclusion to the series, with "Blake" marking the end of an arc running across Season D. Although Season C is my favourite season, I don't see it as a satisfactory conclusion to the story. IMO Season D is a satisfactory conclusion.


I agree that Terminal is a little out of the blue, the only thing that makes sense of Avons actions are a. that he is very tired and b. he really does think that finding Blake might kill them all. However I dont agree about S4 in general and about 'Blake' specifically. There is no arc that leads to GP, in fact there is no arc that is discernable at all, far less than for Terminal. S4 has all the disjointed elements of S3 but with a lot less justification. There should be an arc to lead up to that episode, there should be an arc across the whole thing given that its far more static than the previous series, but there isnt one.


Terminal is making less sense the more I watch of it. Avon flew through a dangerous particle cloud (or something) in order to find Blake (who he couldn't wait to eject by the end of Season 2) in order to gain knowledge of a "new discovery" which might make him wealthy (when the Liberator already contains wealth equivalent to the whole of the Federation banking system).

*shrugs*
 
President Solvite
Simple answer:

Blake saw it, pinched it, spent it.. Smile

(No but seriously Terminal is a bit of a duff episode in that respect, but I still find the death of Zen and the Liberator traumatic, something I have never forgiven Avon for!)
 
http://nothingsforgotten.freeforums.net/
trevor travis
President Solvite wrote:

Simple answer:

Blake saw it, pinched it, spent it.. Smile

(No but seriously Terminal is a bit of a duff episode in that respect, but I still find the death of Zen and the Liberator traumatic, something I have never forgiven Avon for!)


Agreed - the continuity of "Terminal" does lead to several "eh????" moments, but the buliding tension of the episode is still rather magnificent. I can't remember if this episode actually made my cry in 1980, but if it didn't, it came very close to it. Zen's death is so, so sad.

And watching it these days makes me want to hurl something at Avon's head. After all his (justified) complaints against Blake, he's twice as bad himself here.... and manages to kill the golden goose.
 
Grade Four Ignorant
As Terminal begins, Avon has been awake for nearly two days. He is not in the mood to deal with Tarrant and he even admits that his usual talent for insults is somewhat lacking. Seeing as Tarrant refuses to trust him, the simplest way for Avon to get what he wants is to threaten to kill him. This scares the others into line and gives credibility to his threats if they try to follow him.

Avon's biggest character flaw is greed. He probably has a nest egg of jewels from Liberator and money from Freedom City. But he equates money with power and safety and will always want more.
 
peladon
littlesue wrote:

trevor travis wrote:

peladon wrote:

trevor travis wrote:

peladon wrote:
( though the Anna business is nonsensical purple plotting).





And there was little me thinking "Rumours" was one of the best-ever episodes of televsion, rather than it being "nonsensical". Grin


Really? Why ever would you think that.


The combination of truly outstanding dialogue, outstanding acting (Paul Darrow's finest hour) and a remarkable script from Chris Boucher. Plus "Rumours" even has very good production vaules; especially for B7 (Fiona Cumming has a real flair for directing this kind of programme). All-in-all, a flawless and very strong production.


I have to agree with tt here. Rumours is one of the best, if not the best, episode of B7. And I'm not too sure about the 'Anna business being nonsensical purple plotting'.
Anna is an underlying thread throughout series A, B, and C. (I don't know it that was intentional by Mr Nation, but it is, to me, the driving force behind Avon).
I think the sudden discovery that he had been betrayed by Anna was the start of Avon's downward slide. That and learning he had been duped by Servalan in 'Terminal' into believing that Blake was alive (and how she gloated on that!) coupled with Cally's death almost immediately after was the turning point.
No doubt this could be argued over for another 35 years.
We were doing it back in the 80's, but all I do know is that I sat in a room with a large TV watching Rumours, back in 1985, with many other B7 fans who all wept at the end. This episode, to us, was the defining moment...and we all loved it, so much so, that they had it on a continous loop!



It has all the characteristics of purple plotting, much of the dialogue is not particularly good (though it has few quality moments)and it makes no logical or character based sense. In fact its classic sentimental melodrama. However the scene in the cellar is well acted enough to prove that the parties involved could cut it when required.

Anna doesnt crop up at all in the first series, even as an elephant in the room, she appears once in the second, mid way through (and I personally find the exchanges between Avon and Grant more convincing and in keeping with Avons character), and there is no reason thereafter to assume he has been influenced by his discovery until RoD. I quite understand why some sections of fandom read his 'slide' as being from that point but its not there on the screen and its not compatible with who he is either.

We'll agree to differ however, I never expected anything else as I know what many fans feel about it.
 
peladon
Grade Four Ignorant wrote:


Avon's biggest character flaw is greed. He probably has a nest egg of jewels from Liberator and money from Freedom City. But he equates money with power and safety and will always want more.


Your evidence for that being......
 
magnificat
GFI: I always thought the greed Aves showed in his attempted theft had more to do with a desire for security than pursuit of power.

I can only surmise TN was determined to put Blake back at the centre of the show no matter what.
 
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