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Current Poll

Who is your Favourite Guest Rebel?

Avalon - (Project Avalon)
Avalon - (Project Avalon)
18% [17 Votes]

Selma - (Horizon)
Selma - (Horizon)
5% [5 Votes]

Tyce - (Bounty)
Tyce - (Bounty)
14% [14 Votes]

Norm One - (Redemption)
Norm One - (Redemption)
2% [2 Votes]

Bek - (Shadow)
Bek - (Shadow)
7% [7 Votes]

Kasabi - (Pressure Point)
Kasabi - (Pressure Point)
19% [18 Votes]

Hal Mellanby - (Aftermath)
Hal Mellanby - (Aftermath)
14% [14 Votes]

Hunda - (Traitor)
Hunda - (Traitor)
5% [5 Votes]

Deva - (Blake)
Deva - (Blake)
9% [9 Votes]

Other
Other
6% [6 Votes]

Votes: 97
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Started: 09 July 2016

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Kerr Avon
Sopron
Yes, you're right he probably calculates it's in his best interests to captain a small crew in a democratic fashion. I just don't think that's the *only*reason he leads by consensus, otherwise a more autocratic side would show itself from time to time no matter what, as with Blake. That would be S4/Derek, then?

As regards his 'altruism'; in MtD, although we and he can see that he's been manoeuvered into staying by Blake & Cally, he gives himself a get-out clause with his line about curiosity.


But that's not a convincing reason to stay trapped with a murderer. But he's already trapped, by Blake & Cally. Again, he is up against unfavourable odds as his rational arguments have been overridden and, if he teleports back with Blake, he leaves Cally {crew/friend/whatever he'd call her} alone with a murderer.

In Deliverance, he returns for Jenna because she's the pilot he needs for 'his' ship and going against the rest of the crew is more trouble than he can handle alone.

But would he have left her down there had she *not* been the pilot? By that stage, possibly not. She falls under the crew/friend/whatever category. She's no longer just another member of the hoi polloi. Also, he's up against the rest of the crew, not good odds.

On Cephlon, he is in the astonishing position of being ego-bombed by Meegat's adoration and realising that achieving what she wants is well within his capabilities, thus retaining her as a useful ally. {Sorry, meegat39!}


She was a lovely girl, but I don't think she had much strategically to offer him.
A handy and secure bolthole for them to wait in once Jenna's rescued until the Liberator turns up? Or, worst case scenario, a secure base with primitive technology to start from if they're trapped down there without rescue. It's apparently held out against the Morlocks outside for a very long time...

I think my point is that he has a sense of responsibility/caring/comradeship with crews 1 & 2 but no particular interest in altruism for its own sake. Wouldn't you agree? (Sorry, I've completely mucked up the formatting on this, but I'm too tired to re-do it Shock
Edited by Sopron on 12 March 2014 23:22:00
 
magnificat
magnificat wrote:

Sopron wrote:

magnificat wrote:

Two thirds of the way through season 3 I think Avon is a better leader than Blake in some ways - more constructive and less bossy.

Don't understand the idea that Avon only cared about himself. He went far out of his way for others in episodes like Mission to Destiny and Deliverance, where he helped strangers.


Certainly S3/Colin(?) Avon is more a leader by consensus, a far cry from Blake's avoidance of 'meaningful discussion' when haring off on his latest whim. This is, in my opinion, precisely because he recognises that he lacks Blake's rabble-rousing charisma and also has no desire to be held responsible by the others when things go wrong, as he held Blake responsible. If he's involved them in the decision, or allowed them to take the decision among themselves, they can hardly blame him. It's another aspect of "I have never understood why it should be necessary to become irrational in order to prove that you care, or, indeed, why it should be necessary to prove it at all." In Avon's mind he 'cares enough to treat the crew as grown-ups who can make their own bad decisions, if that's what they choose, as long as they don't endanger him or 'his' ship. By the same token, they should allow him to follow his own path. Trouble is, he does care and, by extension, cannot avoid blaming himself, especially for the loss of the Liberator and Cally (another occasion for a 'smile' that is, plainly, not because he's a heartless bastard but because it's that or give up and cry, and Avon doesn't cry...)


Yes, you're right he probably calculates it's in his best interests to captain a small crew in a democratic fashion. I just don't think that's the *only*reason he leads by consensus, otherwise a more autocratic side would show itself from time to time no matter what, as with Blake.

As regards his 'altruism'; in MtD, although we and he can see that he's been manoeuvered into staying by Blake & Cally, he gives himself a get-out clause with his line about curiosity.


But that's not a convincing reason to stay trapped with a murderer.

In Deliverance, he returns for Jenna because she's the pilot he needs for 'his' ship and going against the rest of the crew is more trouble than he can handle alone.


But would he have left her down there had she *not* been the pilot?

On Cephlon, he is in the astonishing position of being ego-bombed by Meegat's adoration and realising that achieving what she wants is well within his capabilities, thus retaining her as a useful ally. {Sorry, meegat39!}


She was a lovely girl, but I don't think she had much strategically to offer him.


I wasn't really meaning to say that Avon was altruistic - just that I see him as far from quasi-sociopathic.

I haven't seen Season 4 yet. Apparently Avon changes quite a lot during it from what I've read.
 
Sopron
magnificat wrote:

I haven't seen Season 4 yet. Apparently Avon changes quite a lot during it from what I've read.


And this weeks award for unintended understatement goes to....!!

Let me know what you think after seeing it, magnificat GrinAngry
 
Grade Four Ignorant
Not only does his personality change in Season D, but he also replaces his bowl cut with a lovely blow dried quiff.
 
JustBrad
magnificat wrote:

I haven't seen Season 4 yet. Apparently Avon changes quite a lot during it from what I've read.


That could be said for the entire show. S4 is almost more of a spin off than a continuation.
 
Spaceship Dispatcher
JustBrad wrote:

S4 is almost more of a spin off than a continuation.

Well said. GrinAngry
Reversing the polarity of the neutron flow. I bet that means something. It sounds great.

Blake's 7: Trojan Horse (s4 fanfic) - Blake's 7: Through the Needle's Eye (s2 fanfic)

Spaceship Dispatcher's fanfic site
 
JustBrad
Spaceship Dispatcher wrote:

JustBrad wrote:

S4 is almost more of a spin off than a continuation.

Well said. GrinAngry


Can't take credit. Heard it at a con panel from one of the regular B7 folks. May have been Paul, may have been Gareth, and now that I think about it, it may have been David Maloney.

And welcome back, SD
 
peladon
JustBrad wrote:

magnificat wrote:

I haven't seen Season 4 yet. Apparently Avon changes quite a lot during it from what I've read.


That could be said for the entire show. S4 is almost more of a spin off than a continuation.


Agreed, no way at all a continuation.

What you think of Avon S1/3 probably depends on whether you think people are best assessed/judged by what they say or what they do. I'm firmly of the words are cheap so judge by deeds camp myself and therefore for me Avon does not show many of the negative charactersitics attributed to him by some others. Not to say that he's an angel ofcourse....Grin
 
Asteria occulta
Grade Four Ignorant wrote :

Not only does his personality change in Season D,


Season 4 Avon reminds me of Cally and the Sarcophagus alien : he got partially consumed by his actor

but he also replaces his bowl cut with a lovely blow dried quiff.


I liked that bowl cut (pouts)
I may grow older, but I'll never grow up.
 
Spaceresearcher
Sadly Avon shoots Blake. Personally I feel the final episode falls short of the character Avon really became. In season 4 I see an Avon that realised the importance of Blake and a reason for Avon persevering with the rest of the crew to make an attempt at continuing Blake's legacy. The last episode just doesn't fit with the rest of the season at all.
 
Achilles
Hello! I'm very new to all this….but a friend remembering how much I loved B7 when I was at university, saw "Lucifer" advertised online. Avon was my favourite…so she got me the audiobook to listen to as I recover from hip surgery….that lead to the box set of DVD's and now the "Liberator Chronicles. B7 alive and kicking!

Oh…….Avon is still my favourite!

Oh…….Avon was my mother's favourite and the favourite of all my uni friends!!
 
Spaceship Dispatcher
Welcome Achilles! Glad you enjoyed Lucifer, imo it was a really good effort from PD Grin
Reversing the polarity of the neutron flow. I bet that means something. It sounds great.

Blake's 7: Trojan Horse (s4 fanfic) - Blake's 7: Through the Needle's Eye (s2 fanfic)

Spaceship Dispatcher's fanfic site
 
Achilles
Thank you!

I thought it was excellent. Only problem was, I tended to get very sleepy as I was listening (not long after my op) & had to go back about 4 times, as I kept dozing just before the Avon/Servalan showdown, then for some reason wake up to hear Avon say "Hello Orac"!

I finally stayed awake long enough to finish it!
 
meegat39
Hello Achilles and welcome! I too really enjoyed Lucifer Grin
"If you didn't want the answer, you shouldn't have asked the question."
 
trevor travis
Spaceship Dispatcher wrote:

JustBrad wrote:

S4 is almost more of a spin off than a continuation.

Well said. GrinAngry


But wrong. There are 52 official episodes of B7, not 39.

And "Terminal" as a one-off final episode just doesn't work for me, there's no build up at all, in what way for example does "Death-Watch" led into "Terminal"?

Whereas Season D is a proper conclusion to the series, with "Blake" marking the end of an arc running across Season D. Although Season C is my favourite season, I don't see it as a satisfactory conclusion to the story. IMO Season D is a satisfactory conclusion.
 
trevor travis
Grade Four Ignorant wrote:

Not only does his personality change in Season D, but he also replaces his bowl cut with a lovely blow dried quiff.


Avon develops farily consistently across all four series. IMO there are one-or-two episodes where he's not quite right, but these actually take place in Season C, where Avon is almost portrayed as the hero. Paul Darrow felt this wasn't quite right, spoke to Vere Lorrimer, who agreed that Avon should return more to his anti-hero status in Season D. I'm sure Paul says something along these lines in the interview in the Tony Attwood Programme Guide, the show's bible (Attwood wrote two B7 books, one fantastic, one... er... well not!!!).

In some ways, Season D Avon is much like Season B Avon. But with more power. With tragic results.
 
Achilles
meegat39 wrote:

Hello Achilles and welcome! I too really enjoyed Lucifer Grin


I've just listened to "The Turing Test" from "The Liberator Chronicles". I thought it was excellent. I wasn't sure what to expect, but it was cleverly written, beautifully performed & the perfect story for Avon
 
trevor travis
JustBrad wrote:

Spaceship Dispatcher wrote:

JustBrad wrote:

S4 is almost more of a spin off than a continuation.

Well said. GrinAngry


Can't take credit. Heard it at a con panel from one of the regular B7 folks. May have been Paul, may have been Gareth, and now that I think about it, it may have been David Maloney.


Season D seems to have been a favourite of Paul's, while Gareth freely admits having never watched the series, either when he was or wasn't a part of it... he felt watching himself affected his future performance. It was a question he was asked at Return To Gauda Prime.

I can see David Maloney saying it, simply because he was a very good producer (as was Vere Lorrimer after him; B7 was very lucky in that respect).

Season D probably went into a different direction under Vere than David (although I'm always amazed how similiar it is, it's almost as if Vere said to Chris Boucher, "Dear boy, I realise the Liberator is no more, but can we get things back to the way they were" before Boucher went and wrote the effortless-seeming Rescue, which manages all that and more!!).

David Maloney, as such a careful custodian, probably saw things he wouldn't have done in Season D - i.e. I'm not sure if he would have given us something quite as grim!!! Therefore it wasn't really B7 to him. But, at the same time, he would he realised the effort put into Season D by Vere Lorrimer, Chris Boucher, the production team and the cast; most of whom he'd be responsible for employing!

I think B7 was lucky to always be put together by such a talented team. It didn't ever suffer a "duff period" as many programmes do.

EDIT: But surely the person most likely to have said it is Terry Nation. It must have been strange watching his "baby" continue without him. At least this time it was with his approval and consulation (Vere Lorrmier visited him to ask his views), whereas when "Survivors" continued without him, it was with a producer hellbent on completing changing the scenario Terry had originally written. "Survivors" completely changes between seasons TWICE, and demonstartes how little B7, in comparison, changes in Season D.
Edited by trevor travis on 16 March 2014 13:38:20
 
Travisina
Achilles wrote:

meegat39 wrote:

Hello Achilles and welcome! I too really enjoyed Lucifer Grin


I've just listened to "The Turing Test" from "The Liberator Chronicles". I thought it was excellent. I wasn't sure what to expect, but it was cleverly written, beautifully performed & the perfect story for Avon


Hi Achilles, and welcome!

I agree about The Turing Test. It had quite a weight of responsibility, being the very first of the Liberator Chronicles, and it needed to engage fans with its style of 2-hander audio storytelling. It was a good move on the part of Big Finish to kick off with arguably the most popular of character pairings, Avon and Vila. Yes, it was cleverly written and beautifully performed and was the perfect opener to what has turned out to be a terrific series of audios!
Twitter: @TravisinaB7
Tumblr: tumblr
There's no point being grown up if you can't be childish sometimes
 
trevor travis
Travisina wrote:

Achilles wrote:

meegat39 wrote:

Hello Achilles and welcome! I too really enjoyed Lucifer Grin


I've just listened to "The Turing Test" from "The Liberator Chronicles". I thought it was excellent. I wasn't sure what to expect, but it was cleverly written, beautifully performed & the perfect story for Avon


Hi Achilles, and welcome!

I agree about The Turing Test. It had quite a weight of responsibility, being the very first of the Liberator Chronicles, and it needed to engage fans with its style of 2-hander audio storytelling. It was a good move on the part of Big Finish to kick off with arguably the most popular of character pairings, Avon and Vila. Yes, it was cleverly written and beautifully performed and was the perfect opener to what has turned out to be a terrific series of audios!


Agreed. "The Turing Test" is a great story - and almost the whole series of audios is fantastic!!
 
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