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Who is your Favourite Guest Rebel?

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Kerr Avon
Ela
Surely this has been answered somewhere, but I just re-watched the episode, so I'm asking. Smile

At the end of Gold, why does Avon laugh when he realizes that he risked all their lives for money that is now worth nothing?

It's a great laugh and SO Avon, but I'm not sure what's behind it.
 
BradPaula
Ela wrote:

Surely this has been answered somewhere, but I just re-watched the episode, so I'm asking. Smile

At the end of Gold, why does Avon laugh when he realizes that he risked all their lives for money that is now worth nothing?

It's a great laugh and SO Avon, but I'm not sure what's behind it.


I would say it's an ironic laugh, seeing how they went through all that effort for nothing, and made Servalan rich in the mean time. Also, some believe by this time Avon was going a bit round the bend.
Zil: Oneness must resist the Host.
 
Anniew
Well Ela if you read my fic Avon Smiles you'll get one explanation - an angsty one. Another would be that Avon has a keen sense of irony so he laughs when he registers ironic moments - the irony of realising that 3 ships are approaching Liberator in Horizon just as Orac has told him he will be perfectly safe as long as Liberator is not attacked by 3 ships at once; the irony of realising that Servalan has succeeded in taking a fatally damaged Liberator which will probably kill her in Terminal; the irony of realising he's made his arch enemy Servalan rich in Gold; the irony of realising that now he's killed Blake he'll have to act the hero which will probably end in his death because he owes Blake for the mistake he's just made in the last episode.

Others might have different explanations. Some people think it's that he's finally slipped into madness by the end of Gold!

Hope this helps.

Annie
Just because I can't sing doesn't mean I won't.
 
Travisina
Anniew wrote:

Well Ela if you read my fic Avon Smiles you'll get one explanation - an angsty one.

It's HERE to save you searching for it (and jolly good it is, too).
Twitter: @TravisinaB7
Tumblr: tumblr
There's no point being grown up if you can't be childish sometimes
 
Anniew
Travisina

Smile Smile Smile Smile

Annie xx
Just because I can't sing doesn't mean I won't.
 
Ela
BradPaula wrote:

Ela wrote:

Surely this has been answered somewhere, but I just re-watched the episode, so I'm asking. Smile

At the end of Gold, why does Avon laugh when he realizes that he risked all their lives for money that is now worth nothing?

It's a great laugh and SO Avon, but I'm not sure what's behind it.


I would say it's an ironic laugh, seeing how they went through all that effort for nothing, and made Servalan rich in the mean time. Also, some believe by this time Avon was going a bit round the bend.


I thought it was an ironic laugh, myself.
 
Anniew
I swear Paula's post wasn't up when I answered you Ela. It says the same thing as my post far more succinctly!
Just because I can't sing doesn't mean I won't.
 
JustBrad
Avon's Laugh.

A common director's question is: How will you get off (Stage)? What prompts the curtain to come down?

Avon's laugh is an effective off, his humor verging on madness in the face of adversity as the worthless paper flies about him.
 
Ela
Anniew wrote:

I swear Paula's post wasn't up when I answered you Ela. It says the same thing as my post far more succinctly!


Smile

I saw Paula's post under mine. Maybe it was a forum glitch. Wink
 
Anniew
Hope so. Feel an idiot!
Just because I can't sing doesn't mean I won't.
 
Ela
Anniew wrote:

Hope so. Feel an idiot!


No need to feel that way, though. I didn't think anything about it when I saw your post and Paula's, even if they were out of the order in which they were posted. Certainly didn't think you're an idiot! I appreciate everyone's thoughts in these threads. Smile
 
BradPaula
Anniew wrote:

Hope so. Feel an idiot!


Don't sweat it. I've done plenty of idiotic things on this Forum myself, and here I am still. Grin
Zil: Oneness must resist the Host.
 
Anniew
Ella. Paula SmileSmileSmile. Thank you!
Just because I can't sing doesn't mean I won't.
 
sooper mouse
President Solvite wrote:

Avon is your typical computer 'techie' - pulled in many directions but happy in his element with computers.

However take him out of his comfort zone and put him in charge of people - he is a complete disaster.

But he wasn't a complete disaster- he cared more about his crew than Blake did about his.

Thing is, Avon didn't actually LIKE having people around him, but he is a reluctantly loyal person, and after the final scenes in Star One, he seemed to feel bound to be the person that Blake trusted.

this is the exact moment when Avon's fate was decided. You can see it, the moment Blake told him "I've always trusted you, Avon, from the very beginning". That there is what hurt Avon looks like.

pbs.twimg.com/media/CxZdjqyXAAAld8L.jpg
That broke him. Avon could happily live in a world where he turned tail and looked after himself first, until that phrase. Afterwards, he was bound by honour to always be the man Blake trusted him to be.
That's why he went after Blake on Terminal, and that's why he killed Blake on Gauda Prime.
After fighting Blake's revolution for 2 years and losing everything he ever valued, the thought that Blake could have betrayed him was too much to bear.
That's why everytime he was in mortal danger Avon looked so fucking happy. Because dying for Blake's cause would have been his release.
One he didn't get.
Blake was an idiot. And Avon loved him as much as he hated him.
 
sooper mouse
Ela wrote:

Surely this has been answered somewhere, but I just re-watched the episode, so I'm asking. Smile

At the end of Gold, why does Avon laugh when he realizes that he risked all their lives for money that is now worth nothing?

It's a great laugh and SO Avon, but I'm not sure what's behind it.


Because it is funny. The thought of working that much only to have Servalan win is funny in a bitter ironic kinda way. IN a "Holy shit aren't we a bunch of morons" kinda way.
It's funny if you think like Avon.
 
sooper mouse
Having given this thread a thorough re read, I notice a couple of issues that seem to affect the discussion:

1. Many people take canon and Fanon together. This is not only dangerous but pretty amusing especially when it's so easy to prove incorrect. It's a wide range phenomenon going as far as the series' Wikipedia entry where someone's so eager to spin together a few stray acts into an A/C relationship that they're literally distorting the truth-not only is Cally not even remotely Avon's preferred mission partner, they barely go on any together.
I tend to include in Canon the actual statements of the writers and the cast, who would have obviously known the characters best, with Writers>cast and then in the order of importance- as in Nation/Boucher> any guest writer.

I wouldn't normally do it, but it is obvious that the latter writers were too busy pushing their own issues onto the already existing characters than respecting the established narrative ( Tanith Lee). Seriously if your main argument for Character X and Character Y have a relationship is "character X tends to hit on character Y when being mind controlled)... that's kinda thin.

2. The fact that Keiller is a shifty character doesn't necessarily make him a low class one, the same with Tynus.

Keiller's position that of a large ship's purses seems to be equivalent with that of a Captain or if you want manager of the business side of things. Hardly a cheap thief. Tynus is the tech leader of the Fosforon base- again he might be shady but he is not a petty crook.
If there's an inference to be made from this is that Avon's "friends" are people of a certain social standing with less than perfect morals, but then again in a corrupt system like the Federation honesty seems to be the fastest way to get mindwiped or killed.

3. Anna Grant- I don't know about the rest of you, but I don't believe in "one great love of one's life". Humans as animals don't mate for life, we just until recently not lived long enough to outlive our main relationships.
We don't know whether or not Avon had had any other relationships, and from what we see in the original series, we can safely infer that Avon's issue is the guilt part- he feels responsible for her death. So his obsession with Anna might as well be because he feels guilty. If him and Anna would have parted ways amicably, she might just have been a footnote in his life.

4. Someone further up mentioned that the fraud Avon and Tynus were involved in had to have been a different one from the one Anna was involved in, because Avon and Tynus never mention Anna.
WE don't actually know that Anna was directly involved in the fraud to begin with- it's possible this was something Avon did to secure safety for him and Anna , not WITH Anna.

5. Just because character X or Y who just met Avon says something about him doesn't necessarily mean that is true- it's just their assumption he may or may not want to maintain. The fact Jenna believes Axon would get rid of her in Cygnus Alpha doesn't mean that he does, it's just how she perceives him, and at this point, she barely knows him.

6. Judging by his actions not words, Avon is sentimental about 2 issues only : Anna and Blake.
In that he is the least sentimental character of the series. Again, look at actions not words.

7. There is nothing wrong with saving one's own skin. And if Avon placed that as his main priority as he claimed he did, Blake's 7 would have ended at Horizon- he'd have taken the ship - 2 hours advance to the flotilla at S by 10 would have taken him to safety easily.
In Orbit Avon refuses to die unnecessarily- the man who risked his life repeatedly for others has a right to not want to waste it for Vila, especially since it's debatable that even if Avon would've sacrificed himself, Vila might not have lived anyway.
I have concluded that Jenna is Blake-aware, Blake is Avon-aware, Avon is self-aware and Gan is rarely aware. Vila is merely wary. Cally is frequently more away than aware.
 
JustBrad
sooper mouse wrote:

3. Anna Grant- I don't know about the rest of you, but I don't believe in "one great love of one's life". Humans as animals don't mate for life, we just until recently not lived long enough to outlive our main relationships.


Point taken re other relationships, but you've only to look at Avon in that cellar to know what Anna meant to him, or rather, what his personal memory of Anna meant. He goes to great lengths to avenge her, perhaps out of a guilty conscience, perhaps out of love.

And then he realizes what he was in love with was not Anna, but his own personal image of Anna. He had made her into something she was not, and idolized her for it. The revelation that she was not what he imagined her to be probably hit him as hard or harder than her death.

It's very human to build up someone you idolize with qualities they do not in fact possess. It happens in life, as well as in fandom. You've only to peruse this board to find evidence of it, and Avon, for all his gifts and faults, was only human after all.
 
sooper mouse
JustBrad wrote:

sooper mouse wrote:

3. Anna Grant- I don't know about the rest of you, but I don't believe in "one great love of one's life". Humans as animals don't mate for life, we just until recently not lived long enough to outlive our main relationships.


Point taken re other relationships, but you've only to look at Avon in that cellar to know what Anna meant to him, or rather, what his personal memory of Anna meant. He goes to great lengths to avenge her, perhaps out of a guilty conscience, perhaps out of love.

And then he realizes what he was in love with was not Anna, but his own personal image of Anna. He had made her into something she was not, and idolized her for it. The revelation that she was not what he imagined her to be probably hit him as hard or harder than her death.

It's very human to build up someone you idolize with qualities they do not in fact possess. It happens in life, as well as in fandom. You've only to peruse this board to find evidence of it, and Avon, for all his gifts and faults, was only human after all.


knowing Avon as we do, it's absolutely possible. That combined with the whole context of his capture etc could have ended up being the one point of focus he had in order to maintain his sanity.
Then again, that image is the one Anna created herself. Considering the federation's vast use of psychostrategists, it is possible that Anna had access to a full profile she had used to craft a personal that would match with Avon's needs.

Avon does have a high sense of responsibility, which is many cases harms his self preservation instincts. And yes, realizing he was the fool is probably a strong factor in his later sanity slippage
I have concluded that Jenna is Blake-aware, Blake is Avon-aware, Avon is self-aware and Gan is rarely aware. Vila is merely wary. Cally is frequently more away than aware.
 
trevor travis
sooper mouse wrote:1. Many people take canon and Fanon together.


I'm guilty as charged on that one Wink

As are you by claiming: "Considering the federation's vast use of psychostrategists".

We see Carnell. And that's it.
 
JustBrad
trevor travis wrote:

sooper mouse wrote:1. Many people take canon and Fanon together.


I'm guilty as charged on that one Wink



Me too, but only MY Fannon.

In the words of Adam Savage, "I reject your reality and substitute my own." Grin
 
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