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Hostage Blake's uncle question
daro2096
Blake's uncle: Is Ushton his first name? Because he is Blake's father's brother. His name should be Ushton Blake and his daughter Inga Blake, yes?

So why does Travis call him Ushton?
 
winnie-l
There has been a lot of speculation over the years. Some previous, by others, from my archive files:

If they are following the pattern of English schools, then what happens when a family has more than one son? Is the eldest called by the last name and the rest by their firsts? That could explain why Blake's father's brother is called Ushton rather than Blake.
(although IMHO Ushton is an odd first name!)

.Blake's uncle Ushton however, is his father's brother, and hence should have been called "Blake" (= his last name)... perhaps close family use the given name, which is fine for Blake himself (he's close family so can call Ushton Blake "Ushton") but why should Travis call him Ushton? (Travis is not close family!) Unless Travis despised him and deliberately used this way of naming him.
HMMM! So by calling Ushton Blake "Ushton", Travis is defying social protocol - Travis has no "right" to name the man by his first name... HMMMM

There are several possibilities (aside from the obvious confusion of having two characters with the same name):

1. Only eldest sons are called by the surname, at least when they're together
-- this would cover Deeta and Del both being called Tarrant.

1A. Ushton is a younger brother.
1B. Blake's father was the younger son and Blake was his first name but became our Blake's last name (Erik the Red, Lief Erikson, that sort of thing). [!]

2. Ushton and Blake's father had different fathers but the same mother.
2A. She remarried and women still take their husband's last name.
2B. She was only married to one but the other still got his own father's name
2C. She wasn't married to either... (we know marriage is still around, the question is what are the rules) but children take their father's last name regardless of their parents' marital status. Dayna has her father's last name, whatever that means.
Inga Ushton?

3. Ushton or Blake's father adopted an alias.

4. There is some additional meaning to the word brother in their time that we aren't getting. Blood brothers? Some sort of social connection that has nothing to do with family ties.


All interesting ideas....
 
daro2096
So it could be Blake's grand mother remarried and had a boy called Ushton? So Ushton could be his surname. But then why would Blake call his uncle by his last name when Ushton calls Blake Roj? Surely he would call him by his first name not family name? So we come back to why Travis calls him Ushton? Does Ushton prefer being called Ushton or is Travis being insulting?
 
Hugbot
More questions:
Why does Blake always refer to Ushton as his 'father's brother' instead of simply his 'uncle'?
And does this make Arnold Rimmer his cousin?
 
daro2096
Maybes the word 'uncle' has fallen out of general use by the 29th century or whenever the series is set in?
 
JustBrad
daro2096 wrote:

Maybes the word 'uncle' has fallen out of general use by the 29th century or whenever the seies is set in?


Vila uses Uncle in this episode
 
trevor travis
Who's to say that the convention regarding surnames has survived by the time of Blake's 7?

After all, Avon's brother calls him Avon, suggesting they have different surnames. Clearly things have changed a little.
 
daro2096
JustBrad wrote:

daro2096 wrote:

Maybes the word 'uncle' has fallen out of general use by the 29th century or whenever the seies is set in?


Vila uses Uncle in this episode


Could be the word is still being used in the circles Vila grew up in whereas those higher up in society, the alpha grades no longer use the word. Just reaching here.
 
rojkerr1
Poor Duncan Lamont, he was nearly the Uncle, had a few rehearsals by all acccounts
 
Joe Dredd
JustBrad wrote:

daro2096 wrote:

Maybes the word 'uncle' has fallen out of general use by the 29th century or whenever the seies is set in?


Vila uses Uncle in this episode


Vila probably had a lot of experience crying Uncle in his childhood.

Uncle! Uncle! UNCLE!
 
trevor travis
JustBrad wrote:

daro2096 wrote:

Maybes the word 'uncle' has fallen out of general use by the 29th century or whenever the seies is set in?


Vila uses Uncle in this episode


Maybe it's a class thing. Vila still uses uncle, but an alpha grade such as Blake with his privileged background doesn't use that word anymore.
 
Endless Midnight
daro2096 wrote:

Blake's uncle: Is Ushton his first name? Because he is Blake's father's brother. His name should be Ushton Blake and his daughter Inga Blake, yes?

So why does Travis call him Ushton?


Could just be something as simple as avoiding confusion. If Ushton's full name was Ushton Blake, Travis would otherwise have had to be calling them both Blake, which would mean a risk of causing confusion, so just to differentiate between them the more clearly, he uses his given name.
 
JustBrad
Naming conventions have always been a topic of debate in B7.

Blake, Gan, Tarrant, and and Avon are almost always referred to by their surnames. Since Gan is presumably not an Alpha Grade, it is not a class based naming convention. Even in the Zen Defense Device vision, Avon's brother is clearly calling him Avon, not Kerr. Even Anna calls him Avon, even in bed....

Jenna, Vila, and Dayna, are referred to by their given name. So again, not class based, and not gender based.

Servalan is always Servalan, presumably a surname, as it's doubtful a given name would follow the title Supreme Commander. Likewise Travis only has one name, even when identified for his court marshal. And then there is Soolin, also with only one name, but presumably a given name.

In conclusion, there is no 'system' or convention of naming in B7, and therefore no way to make sense of it.
 
winnie-l
JustBrad wrote:In conclusion, there is no 'system' or convention of naming in B7, and therefore no way to make sense of it.
Or, it HAS a system / convention - we've just not puzzled it out yet?.....
 
trevor travis
JustBrad wrote:

Naming conventions have always been a topic of debate in B7.

Blake, Gan, Tarrant, and and Avon are almost always referred to by their surnames. Since Gan is presumably not an Alpha Grade, it is not a class based naming convention. Even in the Zen Defense Device vision, Avon's brother is clearly calling him Avon, not Kerr. Even Anna calls him Avon, even in bed....

Jenna, Vila, and Dayna, are referred to by their given name. So again, not class based, and not gender based.

Servalan is always Servalan, presumably a surname, as it's doubtful a given name would follow the title Supreme Commander. Likewise Travis only has one name, even when identified for his court marshal. And then there is Soolin, also with only one name, but presumably a given name.

In conclusion, there is no 'system' or convention of naming in B7, and therefore no way to make sense of it.


That's because his name is Avon Avon. Kerr is just a title, like "Mister".
 
Lurena
RE Servalan, and Travis I assume since they were in employment of the Federation military their surnames were used with a code affix like: Travis Alpha 15105
I think even Tarrant, Blake and Avon, who had been working for the Administration/Federation must have had one. It may have been re-coded after their trial.
This may be an explanation for the fact that Anna (also in Federation employment) calls Kerr Avon Avon. She is simply used to do so.
Perhaps Avon's brother worked for the Administration/Federation too.

Convicted criminals like Vila and Gan may have been coded too. (Delta + number? That would give a cynical turn to Vila's remark about buying his grade)

Jenna, Dayna and Soolin weren't employees of the Federation/Administration and could use their names the way they preferred.
Lara&Sue's Blake's 7 stories
*No, I am not. I am not expendable, I'm not stupid, and I'm not going.*
 
http://lectorisalutem.webs.com/
Travisina
There's an interesting naming convention in the book I'm reading now - 'The 5th Season' by NK Jemisin (highly recommended, btw) - people have a first name, a 'use-name' indicating their caste/profession and 'comm name' indicating which community (ie town, village) they belong to. For example, Essun Resistant Tirimo (Essun is her name, 'Resistant' means able to survive famine or pestilence; 'Tirimo' is her town).

I'm now having fun imagining what the B7 characters' names would be according to that convention. Servalan Leadership Terra, Dayna Innovator Sarran, etc.
Twitter: @TravisinaB7
Tumblr: tumblr
There's no point being grown up if you can't be childish sometimes
 
Psychostrategist
(on Liberator's flight deck)

Jenna: Who exactly is Inga? *glances with veiled jealousy toward Blake*
Blake: She meant a lot to me once.

Only reasonable interpretation is that Blake had not one but multiple rolls in the hay with his first cousin which is sorta gross. While Roj and Inga as first cousins from two brothers would not share the same X chromosome, if such a pairing led to male progeny the offspring could end up with an identical Y-chromosome to Inga's dad which would be weird to look at your son and see your father's face.

Verdict: Blake, guilty of degeneracy after all.
Edited by Psychostrategist on 23 October 2018 11:38:17
 
trevor travis
Psychostrategist wrote:

(on Liberator's flight deck)

Jenna: Who exactly is Inga? *glances with veiled jealousy toward Blake*
Blake: She meant a lot to me once.

Only reasonable interpretation is that Blake had not one but multiple rolls in the hay with his first cousin which is sorta gross. While Roj and Inga as first cousins from two brothers would not share the same X chromosome, if such a pairing led to male progeny the offspring could end up with an identical Y-chromosome to Inga's dad which would be weird to look at your son and see your father's face.

Verdict: Blake, guilty of degeneracy after all.


I guess, although Queen Victoria and Prince Albert were first cousins.
 
daro2096
Couldn't "she meant a lot to me once" be taken a number of ways? Could have been a non romantic fondness?
 
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