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Who is your Favourite Guest Rebel?

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View Thread

Did Avon love Blake (non-romantically)
Yes, by the end but wouldn't admit it. Yes, by the end but wouldn't admit it. 29%[6 Votes]
Maybe, there's some evidence. Maybe, there's some evidence. 19%[4 Votes]
Avon respected Blake but nothing else Avon respected Blake but nothing else 0%[0 Votes]
Blake's opinion meant a lot to Avon Blake's opinion meant a lot to Avon 0%[0 Votes]
No No 43%[9 Votes]
Other (please expand) Other (please expand) 10%[2 Votes]
Total Votes : 21
 Print Thread
Did Avon love Blake (non romantically)
meegat39
I think he did. From the first time he "saved" him, arguably in The Web to the time in Terminal when he risked everything to make contact. All the other occasions in between. This is taken from The Web:

AVON What if something should happen to you and we can't get you back?
BLAKE Then all you have to do is get everybody else out of this mess. (Stands within teleportation area. Avon smiles slightly)

I always took this to mean that Avon was concerned about his own survival here, but I now think he is beginning to realise he has a lot of concern for Blake's wellbeing. He asks the question because he is nervous of what will happen to Blake and the slight smile betrays this.

The pain in Avon's voice when he asks Blake if he has betrayed them and him is another factor in my opinion.
"If you didn't want the answer, you shouldn't have asked the question."
 
Spaceship Dispatcher
Hi meegat,

you're quite cautious with this survey! I should have voted other, because my answer would be "yes, from the events of Spacefall onwards", but I voted for "yes, in the end" because I want to support the 'yes' vote. I'll explain...

The word in English - love - is actually a composite word that covers four completely seperate emotions, for which the Greek language had four seperate words. They were Agape, Eros, Philia and Storge. The first word means an unconditional, deep love that demands nothing in return. Eros is obvious. Philia is a primarily mental rather than emotional feeling that covers loyalty and a regard for the other person, viewing them as an equal but not necessarily someone you have deeper feelings for. Storge applies to family ties. I would apply the principle of Philia love in this case.

In the sense that they were comrades in arms and would look out for each other, despite comments and suggestions to the contrary and pretty much through thick and thin across the 25 episodes between taking the Liberator and attacking Star One, imo Blake and Avon did share the 'love' of being considerate of each other's well being all the way through their time together. Nothing deeper than a sincere mutual respect, but it was a respect that each of them acted upon many times and so I would give my answer above.
Reversing the polarity of the neutron flow. I bet that means something. It sounds great.

Blake's 7: Trojan Horse (s4 fanfic) - Blake's 7: Through the Needle's Eye (s2 fanfic)

Spaceship Dispatcher's fanfic site
 
JustBrad
No. Simple observation.

How much time did he actually spend looking for Blake? Sure, he came when Blake called in Terminal. He seemed to be quite obsessed at that moment, but where was that sense of urgency the previous 12 episodes?

Avon goes after Blake in the final episode of the series, only when all other options have been exhausted. It can be inferred, but not proven, that by the time of that final episode, Avon had known where Blake was for some time.

These are not the actions of one in love, platonically or otherwise.
 
meegat39
JustBrad wrote:

No. Simple observation.

How much time did he actually spend looking for Blake? Sure, he came when Blake called in Terminal. He seemed to be quite obsessed at that moment, but where was that sense of urgency the previous 12 episodes?

Avon goes after Blake in the final episode of the series, only when all other options have been exhausted. It can be inferred, but not proven, that by the time of that final episode, Avon had known where Blake was for some time.

These are not the actions of one in love, platonically or otherwise.


Yes that's all true, but it doesn't change my opinion. I think that Avon thought Blake would be there waiting for him any time he chose to come ...
"If you didn't want the answer, you shouldn't have asked the question."
 
meegat39
Spaceship Dispatcher wrote:

Hi meegat,

you're quite cautious with this survey! I should have voted other, because my answer would be "yes, from the events of Spacefall onwards", but I voted for "yes, in the end" because I want to support the 'yes' vote. I'll explain...

The word in English - love - is actually a composite word that covers four completely seperate emotions, for which the Greek language had four seperate words. They were Agape, Eros, Philia and Storge. The first word means an unconditional, deep love that demands nothing in return. Eros is obvious. Philia is a primarily mental rather than emotional feeling that covers loyalty and a regard for the other person, viewing them as an equal but not necessarily someone you have deeper feelings for. Storge applies to family ties. I would apply the principle of Philia love in this case.

In the sense that they were comrades in arms and would look out for each other, despite comments and suggestions to the contrary and pretty much through thick and thin across the 25 episodes between taking the Liberator and attacking Star One, imo Blake and Avon did share the 'love' of being considerate of each other's well being all the way through their time together. Nothing deeper than a sincere mutual respect, but it was a respect that each of them acted upon many times and so I would give my answer above.


Thanks SD for your vote and your explanation. Wink
"If you didn't want the answer, you shouldn't have asked the question."
 
trevor travis
I've voted "No", because the "Hell no, not at all" option is not there. Grin

Avon has a thinly disguised loathing for Blake, which several times comes to the surface.

The only episode that I struggle to fit into this view is "Terminal". I always think something major has happened to Avon between "Death-Watch" and "Terminal", which must have sparked off his urge to find Blake at this point.

The rest of the time Avon seems happy without Blake. In "Blake", Avon makes it clear that Blake is his final throw of the dice, after his plans involving Zukan fell through.

It's never clarified how early Orac found Blake, but there's a possibility that it's mid-season in Season D, and Avon ONLY goes for Blake, with the threat of Pylene-50 being pumped into the air supply and end of his free will.

Blake is only pursued when things become desperate, and then because Avon wants to use Blake.
 
trevor travis
Just to add, Avon "loves" Servalan more than Blake.

Although "Terminal" is a turning point, and by the end of Season D, he hates her with a passion.
 
BradPaula
I think I have to vote No too. For all the supposed loathing Avon had for Blake, it was indeed strange for Avon to seek him out after Blake had exited the scene. It is equally strange that a mere slip of the tongue on Blake's part results in such a knee-jerk and full-blown disaster in the final episode. It seems that Avon, who purported to loathe and hate Blake while he was on Liberator, slowly went to pieces when he was suddenly gone. I don't call that love- an obsession perhaps? But I certainly don't think Avon 'loved' Blake, respected him, or even valued his opinion at all. Avon still remains a mystery to me. -Paula
Zil: Oneness must resist the Host.
 
Grade Four Ignorant
There is still the ambiguity that Avon only went to Terminal because of the deal Blake had to offer him. Money has always been one of Avon's more obvious vices.
 
peladon
No, he didnt. However having risked death several times at Blakes side, and having relied on him in tight spots, it would be odd if he had no 'connection' to him. I'd suggest its the 'comrade in arms' thing, he'll happily leave Blake to his own devices unless he has either a suitably strong call to his loyalty or some pragmatic reason to seek him out.
 
JustBrad
meegat39 wrote:

JustBrad wrote:

No. Simple observation.

How much time did he actually spend looking for Blake? Sure, he came when Blake called in Terminal. He seemed to be quite obsessed at that moment, but where was that sense of urgency the previous 12 episodes?

Avon goes after Blake in the final episode of the series, only when all other options have been exhausted. It can be inferred, but not proven, that by the time of that final episode, Avon had known where Blake was for some time.

These are not the actions of one in love, platonically or otherwise.


Yes that's all true, but it doesn't change my opinion. I think that Avon thought Blake would be there waiting for him any time he chose to come ...


Which rather flips the question on its head. Did Blake (non-romatically) love Avon?
He certainly seemed to assume an unspoken level of trust, uttering lines like "I set all of this up," and "I was waiting for you." right after Tarrant had told Avon that Blake had sold them.
 
meegat39
JustBrad wrote:

meegat39 wrote:

JustBrad wrote:

No. Simple observation.

How much time did he actually spend looking for Blake? Sure, he came when Blake called in Terminal. He seemed to be quite obsessed at that moment, but where was that sense of urgency the previous 12 episodes?

Avon goes after Blake in the final episode of the series, only when all other options have been exhausted. It can be inferred, but not proven, that by the time of that final episode, Avon had known where Blake was for some time.

These are not the actions of one in love, platonically or otherwise.


Yes that's all true, but it doesn't change my opinion. I think that Avon thought Blake would be there waiting for him any time he chose to come ...


Which rather flips the question on its head. Did Blake (non-romatically) love Avon?
He certainly seemed to assume an unspoken level of trust, uttering lines like "I set all of this up," and "I was waiting for you." right after Tarrant had told Avon that Blake had sold them.


Yes I would also say that Blake loved Avon (non romantically) and had a great deal of trust in him.
"If you didn't want the answer, you shouldn't have asked the question."
 
President Solvite
No,

Avon saw his relationship with Blake was a 'marriage of convienience' nothing more

Taking it the other way, I think Blake was prepared to risk more to save the others life. This developed from early 'trust' of Avon to follow his purer nature, to something more after mid season 1.
 
http://nothingsforgotten.freeforums.net/
meegat39
President Solvite wrote:

Avon saw his relationship with Blake was a 'marriage of convienience' nothing more



But what about all the times that Avon risked his neck to save Blake
"If you didn't want the answer, you shouldn't have asked the question."
 
trevor travis
meegat39 wrote:

President Solvite wrote:

Avon saw his relationship with Blake was a 'marriage of convienience' nothing more



But what about all the times that Avon risked his neck to save Blake


But in "Horizon", he only saves Blake once it becomes the only way out. Avon is quite prepared to abandon Blake and the others, until the Liberator is scanned by three pursuit ships - the number that Avon can't fend off on his own.

Yes, he does often save Blake's neck, but it's for practical reasons. Avon's No 1 priority is always his own survival. As Vila finds out in "Orbit".
 
meegat39
trevor travis wrote:

meegat39 wrote:

President Solvite wrote:

Avon saw his relationship with Blake was a 'marriage of convienience' nothing more



But what about all the times that Avon risked his neck to save Blake


Not really. In quite a few episodes the ship gets shaken around and Avon protectively covers Blake and also in The Web when he pushes Blake out the way of a blast which could easily have got him.

But in "Horizon", he only saves Blake once it becomes the only way out. Avon is quite prepared to abandon Blake and the others, until the Liberator is scanned by three pursuit ships - the number that Avon can't fend off on his own.

Yes, he does often save Blake's neck, but it's for practical reasons. Avon's No 1 priority is always his own survival. As Vila finds out in "Orbit".

"If you didn't want the answer, you shouldn't have asked the question."
 
Asteria occulta
Oh, Hello! (takes a deep bow)
This is my first post on this forum (introduction soon to follow, I promice),so please, please, folks try to be patient with me, I need to get my

bearings first.
I will answer yes, but conditionally, as it depends on what you mean by the term 'love'. I agree with SD, they are comrades in arms, hetairoi, like

Achilles and Patroclus and they share a similar relationship, deep and multilayered (I want to think so, anyway), not always (well, almost never)

smooth, with emotions covering a whole range from caring and respect to annoyance and even, from time to time, loathing.
Don't be surprised by the analogy. I have always viewed Blake as a Hero, not of the christian or the romantic variety, but in the Homeric sense of the

word (larger than life, flawed, a doer of deeds and a speaker of words, fighting against overwhelming odds, you get the idea), he even has the

appearance of a Hero - tall and strong (Gan's taller and stronger but that's a different archetype). Not to mention the sinister opponent (the black

monster figure who may be threatening, but also a bit stupid, a Polyphemous - now is the time to duck, I think-), the quest (star one), or the descend
to the Otherworld ('Voice from the past' anyone? Even Horizon will do).Even his death carries mythic overtones (the mutual slaying of brother by brother

- Seven Against Thebes -, the evidence that he has devised or accepted a confrontation from which he cannot possibly escape alive, the fact that
he is dangerous to be around at his final moments and not just to his enemies - yes, I know, 'Blake dangerous to his enemies? What, now?'Wink ... I could

go on cataloguing parallels but it will be tedious, so I'll stop now, before I get kicked out.
Avon, now. An interesting lad, this one. A case of Still waters running deep or an empty shell on which to project your own image of him? I must admit

that I don't know. In my case it depends on the mood I'm in. Though more times than not I'd love to be able to pack a hefty punch on his supercillious

beak. As for why he doesn't look for Blake for two whole seasons, I think it's a show of idependance. He wants to prove that he can make it on his own

and he needs no one, especially Blake. Something he did again in Deliverance (incidentally, I think the episode perfectly illustrates their

relationship. It even mirrors its ending). He also wants to meet him again in his own time, on his own terms and not be dragged back willy nilly.

Staying away offers him a measure of control on his own life and he needs this desperately. A willing Avon is an asset. A reluctant Avon is a time bomb.

And Blake knows all this, gives him his space and waits.
So, why it ended the way it did? External reasons, having little to do (I don't mean nothing, I don't mean it was irrelevant - it wasn't) with the

internal logic of the story. I don't subscribe to the notion that there was no other way to it, but this just my opinion.
Dear me, that was a lot of words! Time to stop. Bye for now.
I may grow older, but I'll never grow up.
 
Travisina
Hi Asteria, welcome to Horizon and the forum - and what a magnificent first post!

I love your comparison of B7 to classical Greek stories, themes and characters, it makes for very interesting reading. So if Blake and Avon are Achilles and Patroclus, and Gan is 'a different archetype' - what does that make Vila? Or Zen? Or the girls, especially Dayna?

Looking forward to reading more of your posts!
Twitter: @TravisinaB7
Tumblr: tumblr
There's no point being grown up if you can't be childish sometimes
 
Spaceship Dispatcher
Yes, great post Asteria! Your Homeric parallels are most interesting. Happy





I stand by my observation that origins of the word 'love' in the English language have to impact upon its application. The word covers a great many aspects of a relationship, from simply 'looking out for each other' without any personal liking for each others' personalities right up to romantic love and many degrees of emotional connection inbetween. If you make up a packed lunch for someone every day, you're showing love by taking an action that supports them - but it doesn't necessarily mean you love them in a deep, emotional way.
Reversing the polarity of the neutron flow. I bet that means something. It sounds great.

Blake's 7: Trojan Horse (s4 fanfic) - Blake's 7: Through the Needle's Eye (s2 fanfic)

Spaceship Dispatcher's fanfic site
 
Asteria occulta
Hi Travisina and many thanks for the warm welcome (magnificent? Moi? I'm blushing now!)
Let me see then. Dayna is easy, Atalanta the fierce and impulsive virgin huntress. Vila poses no difficulty either, as he is Autolycous, famous trickster and king of thieves, son of Hermes, grandfather of Odysseus. Zen looks like something Hephaestus would contrive when bored (he created robots too, Talos and the serving girls - the Altas?) and as for Orac, I agree with Vila. It is just a rat in a box.
But we seem to be forgetting the Liberator. Argo, the magic ship maybe? Argo means fast, after all, and that ship was fast.
Soolin doesn't interest me, so I usually ignore her. Jenna and Cally? Better not get me started on them or we'll be here all night.

PS smileys! I hate these guys!
I may grow older, but I'll never grow up.
 
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