Login

Username

Password



Not a rebel yet?
CLICK HERE to register.

Forgotten your password?
Request a new one from Orac HERE.

Current User Info

· Lurkers Lurking: 14

· Rebels Active: 1
littlesue

· Total Rebels: 925
· Newest Rebel: uazdah

Login Help

If you are having problems logging in, please bear in mind that if you originally registered at the site before 8th January 2014 and you haven't re-registered since that date your old login details will no longer work. If this is the case, please re-register, preferably with your former username. If you are having trouble with the registration process itself, try looking HERE and HERE for help and advice. If you need further assistance, please do CONTACT us.

Current Poll

Who is your Favourite Guest Rebel?

Avalon - (Project Avalon)
Avalon - (Project Avalon)
18% [17 Votes]

Selma - (Horizon)
Selma - (Horizon)
5% [5 Votes]

Tyce - (Bounty)
Tyce - (Bounty)
14% [14 Votes]

Norm One - (Redemption)
Norm One - (Redemption)
2% [2 Votes]

Bek - (Shadow)
Bek - (Shadow)
7% [7 Votes]

Kasabi - (Pressure Point)
Kasabi - (Pressure Point)
19% [18 Votes]

Hal Mellanby - (Aftermath)
Hal Mellanby - (Aftermath)
14% [14 Votes]

Hunda - (Traitor)
Hunda - (Traitor)
5% [5 Votes]

Deva - (Blake)
Deva - (Blake)
9% [9 Votes]

Other
Other
6% [6 Votes]

Votes: 97
Login to vote.
Started: 09 July 2016

Polls Archive

Forum Activity

Newest Articles

B7 Images

+ Cookies +

The Horizon website uses cookies to allow user log-in and navigation. The site does not host advertising that requires the use of third-party cookies. Registering as a member of this site implies your consent to the use of cookies.

View Thread

 Print Thread
Doctor Who Is Dead
Rainesz
Angry Angel wrote:

Rainesz wrote:

Oh, everyone lighten up! Wink So much doom and gloom, but that goes with a Blake's 7 perspective, lol.
It'll be fun! I'm excited for the change. All the little kids I've talked to at our bookstore love Jodie and think she's cool.
Give her (and the new team) a chance. Grin


I know! I think she's going to be interesting, and her clothes will reflect her personality, probably a lot different from the often grumpy Capaldi incarnation. Anyone else think her coat looks like one Romana II once wore?


I was thinking the same! And it's also a little like Five's cricket jacket, but I think it has a hood. (I need more angles of it!) Maybe she went digging into the TARDIS wardrobe and found Romana's clothes and thought, "Hey, this fits now!" Also, her striped shirt is reminiscent of one Sarah Jane Smith used to wear.
 
Zenrac
Wasn't Lalla Ward's coat a lot more lilac in colour with a conventional coat fit?

I will have to pull out my Tom Baker era dvd's to take a look.
 
Zenrac
dragonq wrote:

Just saw the photo of the costume; thatís right, cast a female doctor, draw attention to her boobs by plastering stripes across them, and then assure us itís a reference to Tom Baker's scarf.


Absolutely.

I mean, this is 2017. We have what, roughly 7.6 billion humans on planet Earth? I would imagine that 4 billion humans are of the female variety, and without getting a little scatological (of possible obscenity) we all know what's on a ladies chest and 'down below', same as we know what is swinging around inside a man's undergarments. We are all adults. We know this. It's hardly groundbreaking stuff. Human anatomy. So why draw attention to the upper deck?

We get it. She is a woman (Jodie). Congratulations. A woman with boobs. Well I never....

For a corporation that is attempting to pander to the liberal viewpoint to the point of obsession, pushing gender on a role when it doesn't need pushing, the BBC are crass in their application. Irony? Misguided?

I don't know.

I am all for strong female roles. About time it was the norm and not just a PR stunt. But there could have been a little more thought. This isn't a Madonna video.
 
sweevo
What next, a male Romana - Romano?
 
JustBrad
Zenrac wrote:



I am all for strong female roles. About time it was the norm and not just a PR stunt...


That's what bothers me most about all this. My favorite companion is Romana 2 because she was the Doctor's equal: A Time Lord, Independent, Courageous, Principled, Passionate, and Highly Intelligent. I would absolutely love a spin off series about Romana. You create strong female characters by creating strong female characters, not by taking a long established male character and making it female.

Here's hoping 13 gets good scripts.
 
BradPaula
Zenrac wrote:

Wasn't Lalla Ward's coat a lot more lilac in colour with a conventional coat fit?

I will have to pull out my Tom Baker era dvd's to take a look.


Romana's matching Doctor coat seemed a pink/red to me. Taking another peek at the new Doctor's togs, I see an homage to many of the 'classic' Doctor's outfits. The Fifth Doctor's coat, the jumper, perhaps a bit Fourth Doctor or even Seventh Doctor, the trousers- Tenth or Eleventh Doctor- the shoes? Even as a woman, the Doctor seems to have a style sense (???) which has endured throughout his many regenerations.
Zil: Oneness must resist the Host.
 
Travisina
JustBrad wrote:

Zenrac wrote:



I am all for strong female roles. About time it was the norm and not just a PR stunt...


That's what bothers me most about all this. My favorite companion is Romana 2 because she was the Doctor's equal: A Time Lord, Independent, Courageous, Principled, Passionate, and Highly Intelligent. I would absolutely love a spin off series about Romana. You create strong female characters by creating strong female characters, not by taking a long established male character and making it female.

Here's hoping 13 gets good scripts.

Agreed, 100%.
Twitter: @TravisinaB7
Tumblr: tumblr
There's no point being grown up if you can't be childish sometimes
 
Zenrac
JustBrad wrote:

Zenrac wrote:



I am all for strong female roles. About time it was the norm and not just a PR stunt...


That's what bothers me most about all this. My favorite companion is Romana 2 because she was the Doctor's equal: A Time Lord, Independent, Courageous, Principled, Passionate, and Highly Intelligent. I would absolutely love a spin off series about Romana. You create strong female characters by creating strong female characters, not by taking a long established male character and making it female.

Here's hoping 13 gets good scripts.


Completely with you there. A time lady: An actual character written to be an equal. Wonderful. Why the writers have not returned to this character is beyond me, especially when they are clearly looking to push a female role.

A Capaldi story, after the mind-block with regard Clara, where he gets sent back into E-Space, to find Romana on the whim of the time lords, to save Gallifrey, using Romana as a tool to promote a female President, with a little K-9 thrown in would have been superb.
 
Zenrac
As an aside (Romana based) one of the nicest people I ever met at a convention (twice) was the utterly glorious Mary Tamm.

What a classy lady. A well read, charming individual.

She was a a great person to be around. So sad she died so young, relatively speaking.

Such a shame.
 
JustBrad
Zenrac wrote:

JustBrad wrote:

Zenrac wrote:



I am all for strong female roles. About time it was the norm and not just a PR stunt...


That's what bothers me most about all this. My favorite companion is Romana 2 because she was the Doctor's equal: A Time Lord, Independent, Courageous, Principled, Passionate, and Highly Intelligent. I would absolutely love a spin off series about Romana. You create strong female characters by creating strong female characters, not by taking a long established male character and making it female.

Here's hoping 13 gets good scripts.


Completely with you there. A time lady: An actual character written to be an equal. Wonderful. Why the writers have not returned to this character is beyond me, especially when they are clearly looking to push a female role.

A Capaldi story, after the mind-block with regard Clara, where he gets sent back into E-Space, to find Romana on the whim of the time lords, to save Gallifrey, using Romana as a tool to promote a female President, with a little K-9 thrown in would have been superb.


I'd be more into Romana coming back on her own to take over Gallifrey.
And you know what, she could do it.
 
Angry Angel
Zenrac wrote:

dragonq wrote:

Just saw the photo of the costume; thatís right, cast a female doctor, draw attention to her boobs by plastering stripes across them, and then assure us itís a reference to Tom Baker's scarf.


Absolutely.

I mean, this is 2017. We have what, roughly 7.6 billion humans on planet Earth? I would imagine that 4 billion humans are of the female variety, and without getting a little scatological (of possible obscenity) we all know what's on a ladies chest and 'down below', same as we know what is swinging around inside a man's undergarments. We are all adults. We know this. It's hardly groundbreaking stuff. Human anatomy. So why draw attention to the upper deck?

We get it. She is a woman (Jodie). Congratulations. A woman with boobs. Well I never....

For a corporation that is attempting to pander to the liberal viewpoint to the point of obsession, pushing gender on a role when it doesn't need pushing, the BBC are crass in their application. Irony? Misguided?

I don't know.

I am all for strong female roles. About time it was the norm and not just a PR stunt. But there could have been a little more thought. This isn't a Madonna video.


I really don't think a simple top which has stripes across the middle is worn to draw attention to the breasts! It's just a nice, slightly quirky-looking top.

Whilst I would like to have had Romana make a reappearance, she's not the Doctor. She doesn't have 50+ years of stories behind her, so there's not going to be the same impact in her having a show on her own. The Doctor is one of the few characters in popular fiction who can plausibly change sex (since he changes his whole body when he regenerates) so it's both interesting and valid to have him become a woman.
 
http://lucyravenscar.blogspot.com/
Zenrac
We can of course agree to disagree. The great thing about this forum is the obvious intelligence at play. It is refreshing to see the like online.

I just do not like the obvious attempts of the BBC to force a narrative on their paying punters.

It is okay to be a man in a role that works for a man. It is almost like we have become so fanatical about the rights of women that it has gone the other way, where by it has become almost an offence to be a working class, middle-aged white man. We are not all misogynistic, sexist morons. I want rights for women based on their talent, their graciousness and their ability to show their class based on what it is, not based on trying to be so liberal and so rabid that we force the issue. Let women stand on their own two feet and be the brilliant individuals that they are rather than making it seem like there is a war against anything that isn't appeasing to everybody because life out here in the real world is just not like that.

I happen to get on better with the female fraternity because there is not the ego problem involved that some (note I said some) men can't move past.

I have two daughters and both have said to me that in attempting to correct something that doesn't need correcting (in this particular instance) they are actually objectifying the female role when defining the female role is something they are trying to get away from. It is reverse irony, almost.

This just feels forced rather than being an intelligent casting decision.
 
Mistletoe12
I'm very much looking forward to watching Jodie in the role. Hoping it will regenerate my interest in the show.

I certainly don't feel the role is being objectified. My decision about watching (long-term) will be based solely on the the quality of the scripts/acting/characters.
Edited by Mistletoe12 on 12 November 2017 17:20:57
 
Rainesz
This just feels forced rather than being an intelligent casting decision.


Again, I would kindly like to disagree. The role has been established early on to be gender-fluid. Sydney Newman, the original creator of the show in the Hartnell era, had wanted Colin Baker's replacement to be either Patrick Troughton again, or a woman. The creator of the show, Newman, had predicted a woman would play the Doctor, and it only took about 54 more years to get there.

(For the record, I'll be a 54 year old woman this year. Again, I was born the same week the first Doctor Who episode aired in the UK, so I am over-the-moon that the Doctor is finally getting a female turn. The little girl in me who watched Jon Pertwee would have been ecstatic.)

Even Patrick Troughton, the very first Doctor to replace an established actor in the role, said in an an interview that there was no limit to the race or the gender of the Doctor because he/she was an alien who was able to change his entire body. (I linked this interview in an earlier post in this thread. http://raineszram...f-go#notes) And after 54 years and 14 white men, when will it ever be the right time to cast a woman or a non-white actor? How about now?

And one more thing and I'll shut up: Wink

Has anyone considered that she was the right person for the role at the right time, out of everyone auditioned, because she had the correct Doctor-ish qualities that we all wanted (needed) to see?And that she was the intelligent casting decision?
Edited by Rainesz on 12 November 2017 20:35:33
 
Zenrac
Well, in terms of right place right time, you are completely correct. Jodie is absolutely in the right place to not only gain the job, but to run with it, and if she settles in well and the public at large run with her, what a great opportunity. Again, my opinion has nothing to do with not liking Jodie. I don't know the lady. She may well be a fantastic human being. It is nothing personal whatsoever. In fact, as I think I said above, if she nails it and Who grows again, I would be over the moon. I would love to see the show turn itself around. Absolutely.

And I have no issue with the character being gender fluid. If......it felt like a natural process to take it in that direction. To me, it does not. It almost feels a little knee-jerk. It's like the BBC has crossed the political line and are attempting to please everyone, of every persuasion, of every sexuality, because they feel they have to, rather than because the role is progressing that way.

It is like the BBC bosses attended a picket-line and the naffed off among us, who want to push their own agenda, got to them, and they felt compelled to act on it.

I am always prepared to be wrong. Just because I see it a certain way does not make me right.

Just how I see the social political game playing out right now.
 
JustBrad
dragonq wrote:

Just saw the photo of the costume; thatís right, cast a female doctor, draw attention to her boobs by plastering stripes across them, and then assure us itís a reference to Tom Baker's scarf.


It's far more likely a reference to the Gay/Lesbian/Transgender community's symbol the Rainbow Flag.

At least that was my first impression. Fitting for DW, which has always been all inclusive, if they will only admit that is what it symbolizes.
 
JustBrad
The one thing I want in the new series is an explanation of why, now, after thirteen incarnations (fourteen counting the Valyard), the Doctor chose to be female for this incarnation.

I assume either choice or fantastical luck is involved. After all, the odds of flipping a coin and having it come up Male fourteen times in a row are rather daunting. So presumably this time around the Doctor needed to be female. Tell me why, make it good, make me believe it, and I will be on board.
 
Zenrac
JustBrad wrote:

The one thing I want in the new series is an explanation of why, now, after thirteen incarnations (fourteen counting the Valyard), the Doctor chose to be female for this incarnation.

I assume either choice or fantastical luck is involved. After all, the odds of flipping a coin and having it come up Male fourteen times in a row are rather daunting. So presumably this time around the Doctor needed to be female. Tell me why, make it good, make me believe it, and I will be on board.


This. Great post.

Just one question - In terms of TV canon, was it ever established that the Doctor can choose gender upon regeneration? I may have missed it. I am not the grand poobah (The Mikado) of Doctor Who history?
 
JustBrad
Zenrac wrote:

JustBrad wrote:

The one thing I want in the new series is an explanation of why, now, after thirteen incarnations (fourteen counting the Valyard), the Doctor chose to be female for this incarnation.

I assume either choice or fantastical luck is involved. After all, the odds of flipping a coin and having it come up Male fourteen times in a row are rather daunting. So presumably this time around the Doctor needed to be female. Tell me why, make it good, make me believe it, and I will be on board.


This. Great post.

Just one question - In terms of TV canon, was it ever established that the Doctor can choose gender upon regeneration? I may have missed it. I am not the grand poobah (The Mikado) of Doctor Who history?


Trevor Travis is the resident expert.

To my limited knowledge gender choice is never mentioned in the classic series. In the new series, it may be implied with the Gallifreyan guard who regenerates and switches gender, but I am not sure.

To whit, in Classic Who, when Romana I regenerated into Romana II, she went through five 'trial bodies' before settling on a look alike of Princess Astra. This implies that she had some control over her appearance, but not necessarily gender, as all five were female.
This is backed up in Capaldi's regeneration as he asks himself, 'Why this face? As if I'm trying to remind myself of something.'
 
Zenrac
Excellent. When Trevor sees this hopefully he can put us all right.

I have been racking my brain (a short exercise in my case) and I can't remember ever having seen or heard a definitive script entry about gender during a regeneration. I could of course be completely wrong. I have been many times in my life.

I certainly don't remember any Tom Baker stories (and I have seen them all many, many times) where this subject was in the script, even during 'Destiny Of The Daleks' when Lalla Ward is 'trying on bodies'.

Oh, and as an aside, I went over to one of the Who forums (reading only, I am not a member) just for a little information, and my God, it is rabid over there. Not particularly well moderated for sure. People are killing each other over opinion.

The internet sure does breed some unique individuals. To launch an attack on someone because they don't happen to agree with you? I have never understood that kind of behaviour. Nobody ever benefits from it. Strange indeed.
 
Jump to Forum:
Orac rendered this page in 0.46 seconds
9,896,529 unique visits since 8th January 2014