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Doctor Who Is Dead
Gauda Cheese
trevor travis wrote:

My gut feel is still that the Doctor should remain male, and the whole thing feels like a gimmick. But it is fun watching the infamous Ian Levine go into meltdown:

https://twitter.c...

Wink

(The funniest part is the responses).


Oh yes the guy "hoarding" missing Doctor Who eps Oops
http://stwco.word... Stuff and things written by me.

My podcast: http://GATM.buzzs...
 
trevor travis
Gauda Cheese wrote:

trevor travis wrote:

My gut feel is still that the Doctor should remain male, and the whole thing feels like a gimmick. But it is fun watching the infamous Ian Levine go into meltdown:

https://twitter.c...

Wink

(The funniest part is the responses).


Oh yes the guy "hoarding" missing Doctor Who eps Oops


That's him. No-one likes him.
 
President Solvite
Kicking off like that in a public space will never do yourself favours.
 
http://nothingsforgotten.freeforums.net/
Mistletoe12
Sunday 16th July - What a memorable day!


I am absolutely thrilled with the Federer win at Wimbledon. I’m a huge tennis fan. Watching Federer isn't easy; every lost point is enough to make me resume my nail biting habit. It's been five years since Federer won at Wimbledon, and the first man in Tennis history to win eight at that esteemed championship. Happy, happy, happy! Congratulations to the GOAT - Greatest Of All Time.

I'm not derailing the thread; the Doctor Who announcement was tagged on at the end of the men’s finals. Wink

@ Hugbot: I completely agree with every word you wrote.

@ Annie: The boys have eye candy in almost every show on TV; I'm with you - as a lovely bonus on Who, it would nice to have a 'little something’ for us girls.

My thoughts on casting a woman in the role:

I watched Who in my youth; I watched almost 'til the end, including the Bertie Bassett episode. I watched Eccleston; disliked the romantic elements with Rose, and couldn't take to Tennant.

Tennant is a fine actor, one of my favourites to watch, particularly in Broadchurch - James McAvoy, David Tennant, and Cumberbatch are a few examples of the exemplary actors who feature on my 'must watch in theatre' list.

But I wasn't keen on Tennant as the Doctor until his series with Donna/Katherine Tate, which I loved, and remains a solid favourite. Their BF audios are good, too.

Matt Smith is good, but his time on Who was hit and miss with me: too much focus on the companions specialness. And way too much emphasis on young, female, pretty, usually annoying - in my opinion - companions. Seriously, can't anyone be normal? I cite Tegan; a great foil for Davison's time lord. Thank goodness Rory came along to temper the Amy character. Also, the River Song appearances/storyline became utterly tedious - anybody who's watched sci-fi/fantasy shows worked out her identity in relation to Amy.

The stories/writing in New Who were likewise hit and miss, and with the arrival of Clara, another smug know-it-all, I decided to quit watching Doctor Who.

I haven't watched since - with one exception. I did watch the 2016 Christmas Special, which I found entertaining. I never had anything against Capaldi: Thick of It and In the Loop are works of genius.

There has been much talk about a woman possibly taking the lead role in Doctor Who. It seemed inevitable. And I don't have a problem with it! I will give the next series a chance; the show may just turn in a different direction with Chibnall as showrunner and a woman at the Tardis helm.

The show had become stale; this may incentivise writers, directors and producers to return to creative plots and storylines, rather than stories in which companions and well known characters (making a good actor like John Simm look bad) suffer from lazy writing.

I had relegated Who firmly into something appealing solely to children instead of its long standing broad appeal. But now I will watch with the hope it has turned a corner. I don't care if the Doctor is a man or a woman. I simply want good writing - overall storylines and characterisation. Gender doesn't bother me with Who.

As I said, I have watched Broadchurch; a fine show, deserving of all the accolades it's received. Jodie Whittaker is a good actress - well known without causing actor fatigue; the likes of which we see in many shows and particularly Hollywood movies - same actor/actress in every film.

It's tradition to have a man as the Doctor isn't a valid argument. Luckily we don't hold onto all traditions: women were burned as witches, the law allowed men to beat their wives. I'm not sitting here battling women’s rights; that isn't for this forum.

I know it's instinctive to buck against change; I do it too - but in this instance, what harm will it do to take step back and wait until the show airs before making a judgement based on scripts and acting rather than gender selection?
 
dragonq
trevor travis wrote:

My gut feel is still that the Doctor should remain male, and the whole thing feels like a gimmick. But it is fun watching the infamous Ian Levine go into meltdown:

https://twitter.c...

Wink

(The funniest part is the responses).


You know--looking at some of the truly dreadful stuff I'm having to deal with in my life at the moment--I can only envy a man who has nothing better than this to get so worked up about.
 
President Solvite
Indeed sorry to hear about your personal woes. Real life is always more important. Hope things work out for you soon Dragonq.

Some people really DO need to get out more and see the bigger picture

New season of GoT so can focus on that too Grin
 
http://nothingsforgotten.freeforums.net/
dragonq
President Solvite wrote:

Indeed sorry to hear about your personal woes. Real life is always more important. Hope things work out for you soon Dragonq.



A lot of it's to do with elderly parents. So only heading in one direction I'm afraid. But thank you for the kind thought.
 
trevor travis
Hugbot wrote:

I’ve never been into Who so this is strictly the view of an external obvserver.
Science fiction is about change; about imagining the unknown; about experimenting with new ideas; about speculating how things might work differently from the way we know.
Time will tell if this new idea will work. Saying in advance, ‘This can’t work because it is not the thing we know!’ is a surprisingly conservative attitude for people who, as sci-fi fans, should embrace the opportunity to venture out into unknown territory.
Wait until you have seen more of her than a 60 second clip. Then you can criticise her for how she is doing her job and not for being who she is.


Hugbot, the main problem is... the Doctor is male.

As you're not into DW, can I ask a simple B7 analogy. What would you think if B7 continued into a fifth season in 1982, but they decided to recast Dayna... as a man?

I will continue watching DW, but it's going to be almost impossible to suspend my belief, no matter how good that Jodie Whittaker proves to be. I fear she's in a no-win situation.

Have all the strong female characters you want - I like and embrace that. But new characters. Not sex-changing existing characters.
Edited by trevor travis on 17 July 2017 19:48:16
 
BradPaula
Wow, trust Blake's 7 fandom to be so intelligent and polite in this heated conversation of the new female Doctor. I have enjoyed reading all your comments and not being held up to ridicule as I was on one of the Doctor Who sites yesterday. I love Doctor Who and now see this as a bit of deja vu. I refer to JNT getting his mitts on the show and turning it into a laughing stock. And finally having it cancelled. I do hope I am wrong, but this major shift in canon cannot spell a ratings boost and many more years on the air, can it? I have no ill will for the actress who was chosen to play the part, in fact I know nothing of her. I have severe reservations about the show runners, especially Chris Chibnall, who has said it was in his mind from the start to cast a female as the Doctor. I'm of the school that if it ain't broke, don't fix it. I am alarmed this idea has come to fruition and worry we'll soon not have Doctor Who to 'kick around' anymore. I do hope I'm wrong but this isn't just an actor change- it's canon change and I muse to myself that with a new female Doctor, does Grand-daughter Susan now have a Grandma instead of Grandpa? And what about the marriage of River Song? Heaven forbid I even go into that! LOL Thanks for everyone's considered and polite posts. It's been fascinating to read them all.
Zil: Oneness must resist the Host.
 
Klenotka
I wouldn´t be so dramatic. Yes, I disagree but not for obvious reasons. I believe women should get equal chances...in creating new, strong,original characters, not bend the rules for them to take male roles - as if they couldn´t do anything by themselves but needed a help from the man.
My problem is with this *specific* actress. I disliked her on Broadchurch, she was the least interesting and lacked any charm or charisma. Maybe it was due to the role she played, so I am going to give her a chance.

but...BUT...the first episode of S11 will need to be perfect. More than perfect. It has to be the best opening episode ever and SHE needs to be perfect. Different, yet the same. She needs to balance the man and the woman. Many and many people will watch the first episode to decide. If they fail to deliver, people will quit watching and this may be the deciding moment for the show.

I am still mourning Peter ´s departure and I am now more curious about his new projects. S11 is far, far in the future, over a year. There will be new Marvel movies, new Star Wars, new Star Trek show (!) and anything can happen. So I would wait for everybody to cool down.

And I have to admit, she is incredibly brave to do this. She must have nerves from steel and be ready for the flame and the hate. DW fans can hate, oh boy, they can. For that, at least, she has my respect. The rest remains to be seen
Don´t be Lasagne
 
JustBrad
Klenotka wrote:

I believe women should get equal chances...in creating new, strong,original characters, not bend the rules for them to take male roles - as if they couldn´t do anything by themselves but needed a help from the man.


That is the best I have ever seen it put.
 
daro2096
Well now the only reason they would cast a woman is LGBT. It is as simple as that. The new Who has had a gay agenda right from the start. So the Doctor is having a sex change because he thinks he is a woman now.

I won't be watching.
 
trevor travis
JustBrad wrote:

Klenotka wrote:

I believe women should get equal chances...in creating new, strong,original characters, not bend the rules for them to take male roles - as if they couldn´t do anything by themselves but needed a help from the man.


That is the best I have ever seen it put.


It does make the point very well.
 
BradPaula
Well, after thinking it over I think I'll be handing in my Doctor Who fan credentials. So long and thanks for all the fish....
Zil: Oneness must resist the Host.
 
Gauda Cheese
BradPaula wrote:

Wow, trust Blake's 7 fandom to be so intelligent and polite in this heated conversation of the new female Doctor. I have enjoyed reading all your comments and not being held up to ridicule as I was on one of the Doctor Who sites yesterday. I love Doctor Who and now see this as a bit of deja vu. I refer to JNT getting his mitts on the show and turning it into a laughing stock. And finally having it cancelled. I do hope I am wrong, but this major shift in canon cannot spell a ratings boost and many more years on the air, can it? I have no ill will for the actress who was chosen to play the part, in fact I know nothing of her. I have severe reservations about the show runners, especially Chris Chibnall, who has said it was in his mind from the start to cast a female as the Doctor. I'm of the school that if it ain't broke, don't fix it. I am alarmed this idea has come to fruition and worry we'll soon not have Doctor Who to 'kick around' anymore. I do hope I'm wrong but this isn't just an actor change- it's canon change and I muse to myself that with a new female Doctor, does Grand-daughter Susan now have a Grandma instead of Grandpa? And what about the marriage of River Song? Heaven forbid I even go into that! LOL Thanks for everyone's considered and polite posts. It's been fascinating to read them all.


Yeah I've been happily surprised myself. A few women have already called me sexist on Facebook Oops
http://stwco.word... Stuff and things written by me.

My podcast: http://GATM.buzzs...
 
Gauda Cheese
My feeling is.....

The New show made gender changing time lords canon. They made it a thing. The new show likes to make many things a thing and it usually feels forced, contrived or eye rolling.
http://stwco.word... Stuff and things written by me.

My podcast: http://GATM.buzzs...
 
trevor travis
BradPaula wrote:

Well, after thinking it over I think I'll be handing in my Doctor Who fan credentials. So long and thanks for all the fish....


Not before the Capaldi/Bradley treat on Xmas Day, I hope. Wink
 
dragonq
BradPaula wrote:

Wow, trust Blake's 7 fandom to be so intelligent and polite in this heated conversation of the new female Doctor. I have enjoyed reading all your comments and not being held up to ridicule as I was on one of the Doctor Who sites yesterday. ... Thanks for everyone's considered and polite posts. It's been fascinating to read them all.


This is pretty much the only place I would bother to try and offer an opinion. There are a range of viewpoints, which is normal, but everyone is being civil and listening to what people with the opposing viewpoints say. I actually feel less stressed about the situation for having read the opposing viewpoints expressed politely.

What I cannot abide is the current tendency (fuelled by the anonymous internet) to shut down discussion or even contrary opinion by name calling. To object to a casting decision does not make one sexist, but you have to be very brave, convicted, or plain pig-headed and rude to be bothered to express an opinion when your mildest remark is countered by a barrage of insults. I know that I've got better things to do with my life, right at the moment.

What I can do, however, and completely anonymously, is turn off my tv.

The more I reflect on the revived 21st century Dr Who, I realise that my experience of it has been moments of great enjoyment--and many of them--undershot by an almost constant irritation with the people in charge of the show, their arrogance, and their crazy determination to force the material into their own moulds. It adds a whole extra layer of tension to following a tv show when you sit down to watch and, always at the back of your head is a niggling "what are they going to do, how are they going to mess with it this time?" I don't get that with other shows, but I do get it with modern Dr Who all the time. Of course, part of this is due to the fact that no other programme I follow has such a back history, but I do prefer to watch tv without having someone else's agenda being rammed down my throat, and then being told that, if I don't like what they've done, it's because I am some kind of bigot. Taking this attitude towards someone who doesn't agree with you is childish, discourteous and, in my opinion, dangerous. We all need to have our opinions challenged from time to time--but politely. So, thank you to all those of opposing viewpoints here for their civility: I think we are ought to give ourselves a pat on the back for being so level-headed in our discussion.
 
Joe Dredd
trevor travis wrote:
Have all the strong female characters you want - I like and embrace that. But new characters. Not sex-changing existing characters.


If they bring Romana back as a bloke, I'll cry.
 
JustBrad
dragonq has got me thinking.

I've been a DW fan since 1972. I lived in Orlando when they were one of the first cities in the United States to get the program. I lived through some really bad programming and remained a fan, so I'll live through this, but as my enthusiasm waned in the mid 80's. it is waning once again.

It's not just the recent casting decision. I have a laundry list of mild (emphasis on mild) grievances, in no particular order.

Story lines not paid off: There was a great deal of foreshadowing re Donna Noble's horrible fate. She got married and won the lottery, not so bad, really. There was a character who was clearly the descendant of Danny Pink and Clara... except that he can't be, right?

How much is enough?: The Weeping Angels were a great invention. Blink is an all time sci fi classic. But they just kept coming back and coming back and it all got a bit silly in the end, didn't it, with an animated Statue of Liberty? Anyone seen Ghostbusters? You could say the same of River Song, though her final episode was a good one.

The Master: No, I was not happy about the gender change. But I was less happy with the overall treatment of the character. The Master always had a quiet, brooding menace about him. He was never a bats in the belfry crazy whacky pantomime villain... until the new series.

There have been many great moments as well, and as I said, these are all minor niggles, but one begins to wonder which minor niggle mighty be the one to break the camel's back.

And yes, the internet has gone mad. It used to be you could log onto a DW page and express your opinions, but if you express issues with this current casting decision, suddenly you are closed minded.

And perhaps I am. Or perhaps I have a point. Time, and the ratings will tell.
 
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