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Doctor Who Is Dead
trevor travis
They are taking the Mickey!

Jodie Whittaker, whoever she is. What nonsense!
 
trevor travis
Chibnall's set a new record. Everyone hates him as showrunner, and he hasn't even started yet Wink
 
JustBrad
Hoping for the best, fearing the worst. When you start doing things on a show because you can, rather than because you should, you have lost your way, and risk losing your core audience.
 
President Solvite
For me Who has been on the slide for some time now. But now I fear it has now gone over a precipice.

As Brad has said just because you can doesn't mean that you should. Also raising these concerns doesn't make one a misogynist either.

I fear that this decision has been made in part as a publicity thing banking on the inevitable resulting controversy which if true is a bit of a cheap stunt and disrespectful not just to the cast but to the loyal fan base as well.

I also feel its a shame that people seem limited on choosing only a younger actor.. There are plenty of older quality actors both male and female who would be a great asset to the show, not necessarily as the Doctor but as the Rani/Romana or another character that could be a major part in the new direction that Who could/should take.
 
http://nothingsforgotten.freeforums.net/
RichardMk2
I say give it a chance. I shall watch it and see it goes.

I remember all the fuss when Billie Piper was cast in the first series of new Who. But it turned out good.
 
Rainesz
I LOVE this decision. I think it's brave and wonderful and I will get my pencils and paints out for Thirteen.
 
Hugbot
I’ve never been into Who so this is strictly the view of an external obvserver.
Science fiction is about change; about imagining the unknown; about experimenting with new ideas; about speculating how things might work differently from the way we know.
Time will tell if this new idea will work. Saying in advance, ‘This can’t work because it is not the thing we know!’ is a surprisingly conservative attitude for people who, as sci-fi fans, should embrace the opportunity to venture out into unknown territory.
Wait until you have seen more of her than a 60 second clip. Then you can criticise her for how she is doing her job and not for being who she is.
 
Travisina
Not overjoyed - I would have preferred a male Doctor and female Time Lady companion or adversary. But I'll give Jodie whatsit a chance - have never watched Broadchurch, so will be coming to this without any prior associations.
Twitter: @TravisinaB7
Tumblr: tumblr
There's no point being grown up if you can't be childish sometimes
 
BradPaula
I gave 36 years of my life to Doctor Who. Admittedly, I am still and always will be a Classic Who fan as I find the New Who often disappointing, but still I watched. I think this is the last straw. They tinkered with the character of the Master, made John Simm a laughing stock, and then chose 'Missy' a character which did a huge dis-service to past Masters, and now a FEMALE Doctor? Sorry, I cling to the idea that once a Time Lord is born, he or she remains the same gender throughout their regenerations. I am afraid the new show runners in trying to bring something new to the series, may be bringing about it's premature death. Instead of bringing new legions of fans in, I think they are thumbing their nose at us old-time fans. Sorry, but this may signal the end of fandom in the Whoverse for me. I will watch the Christmas special, but believe me, I am not a happy camper now. So glad I have most of the Classic episodes on tape or DVD. I can still watch my program and not worry if the new version sinks or swims.
Yes, I'm upset, angry, dejected and depressed today!
Zil: Oneness must resist the Host.
 
peladon
Not suprised but I gave up on it a season or so ago when even Capaldi couldnt hide the rubbish it had become. I thought about trying again then decided against it when I saw that the sexual prefernces of the companion had become something of note. This confirms me in my beleif that it truly is dead becuase things other than the quality of the writing, stories and visual effects have come to be factors in the mix. Typical of a particular kind of mind set that seems prevelant at the BBc these days.
 
Gauda Cheese
Chibnall was going to be my intro back into the new show. I stopped after the Zygon mess. Part of me misses it.

No interest now. So no Romana ? Romana spin off?

Sigh I'm done
http://stwco.word... Stuff and things written by me.

My podcast: http://GATM.buzzs...
 
President Solvite
It could be worse, the powers that be might bring in Mr Blobby as the next incarnation of the Master. In an infinite multi-verse anything is possible, remember you heard it here first! Grin

I am all for something different as a classic Whovian of 40 years plus, and whilst change is inevitable it doesn't necessarily follow that ALL change is good.

I've been drifting away from Who for sometime now, more as a response to the (declining) change in production style/values. The Doctor becoming a woman is more a symptom than a cause. This situation I fear is not going to improve, unless the cause is dealt with. With the rot starting somewhere in the late Tennant era in my view. We are departing from what we had and whilst I have taken each change on its own merit so far I have found it on the whole to be increasing inferior to what I had before. With a few, isolated and increasingly rare exceptions.
 
http://nothingsforgotten.freeforums.net/
Gauda Cheese
I think I'll pass on watching a show about a woman who was 12 dudes.

Oops
Edited by Gauda Cheese on 16 July 2017 22:11:17
http://stwco.word... Stuff and things written by me.

My podcast: http://GATM.buzzs...
 
Gauda Cheese
RichardMk2 wrote:

I say give it a chance. I shall watch it and see it goes.

I remember all the fuss when Billie Piper was cast in the first series of new Who. But it turned out good.


Tee hee I never liked her on Who.

All that love stuff ugh
http://stwco.word... Stuff and things written by me.

My podcast: http://GATM.buzzs...
 
Rainesz
I seem to be in the minority here, but I love this decision. Even Sydney Newman, the creator of the show in 1963, suggested a female incarnation. And the show has always been about change. And she'll be male again soon enough, so in the meantime there's a lot of very happy little girls out there (AND little boys too) who are going to see a great female hero called The Doctor.
 
Gauda Cheese
Rainesz wrote:

I seem to be in the minority here, but I love this decision. Even Sydney Newman, the creator of the show in 1963, suggested a female incarnation. And the show has always been about change. And she'll be male again soon enough, so in the meantime there's a lot of very happy little girls out there (AND little boys too) who are going to see a great female hero called The Doctor.


I think I'd have much rathered they have brought the Rani into the show and have Gomez play her and also have this woman play Romana! Introduce her again make her a companion and spin her off. I'm not a fan of how the Missy character turned out and, because of that I don't have much faith they can pull off a female Doctor.

I hope it works out I'll come here and read what people think.
http://stwco.word... Stuff and things written by me.

My podcast: http://GATM.buzzs...
 
dragonq
I could see this coming a mile off. I'm not particularly happy for a whole raft of reasons, but I agree wholeheartedly with President Solvite's remark that this decision is a symptom of a more general malaise.

I'm not going to be rude about an actress whom I've never heard of: she will quite probably play the part as it is given her very well. As to whether I will watch it or not, I'm undecided. My relationship with the modern Dr Who series has been up and down from its inception; I tend to watch it for a while, then get really annoyed and give up for a time. The first time this happened was when Billie Piper and David Tennant started making goo goo eyes at each other, and it's been a revolving door ever since. I thought Peter Capaldi was an astonishingly good doctor, perhaps the best in the show's history with regards his performance, but he was poorly served with the direction taken by the show's producers, some of the scripts, and his companions (have there ever been less interesting companions than Clara and her boyfriend?). For all his merits, I have to confess that I have not watched to the end of Capaldi's episodes, and casting a female doctor is not going to make me start watching again with screams of delight.

Being a fan of a certain age, who watched the programme go down the gurgler the first time, I have a strange sense of deja vu. Let's make a checklist as we circle the plug hole. A poor casting decision in the lead role. (In fairness, Colin Baker is excellent in Big Finish, so he can't take the all the blame for the awfulness of his performance on tv). A hated producer who would not let go and who insisted on shoe-horning his own vision into the programme against its history. Substandard scripts. Falling ratings. Sound familiar? There is also an unbelievable arrogance on the part of a lot of people, many of whom are vocal in online forums, that none of this matters and if you don't go along with the decision you are somehow not a fan, or you are just plain sexist and a contemptuous person whose opinion doesn't matter. This morning I spent a bit of time reading some of the comments in my Facebook feed, and the general response to anyone who expressed disagreement was:

1. You are sexist (I am right, I am morally superior, you don't agree with me, let's just shut down the debate by name calling)

2. Time Lords are gender fluid and always have been (I am sorry, but I have been watching the show since about 1971, and until they decided to make the Master a female, I don't recall this being in any way canonical)

3. Goodbye, you won't be missed.

Number 3 is the most arrogant and dangerous reaction of all. The fact is that when people stop watching, they WILL be missed, because Doctor Who is a tv show, and tv shows are expensive to make and need viewers. If you make a radical change to an established format, you are gambling on the fact that the radical change will create more viewers than it will drive away, and I am afraid I just can't see that happening. Much as I liked Peter Capaldi's performance, there were plenty of viewers who were very vocal about the fact that they didn't want to watch an older Doctor. Of course, it can be argued that the Doctor has several times been an older gentleman, and argued with much more confidence than any claims that the doctor has always been gender fluid, but those sort of arguments don't wash with the average viewer. I was personally very happy when Peter Capaldi was cast, but I can also accept that there were a lot of people who were not, and that their willingness to continue watching is just as important as mine (and as I mentioned, even I haven't watched through to the end, and I liked him). The sad fact is that the show haemorrhaged viewers during his tenure, particularly during the last season (dare I say it, the lesbian companion probably didn't help) and it is in a weaker position now than it was when he took over. To turn around and make a controversial casting choice at this point in its history seems like a perilous thing to do. It may be the start of a turnaround, but I suspect it may also be its undoing if it alienates the 90% of the iceberg who are not fans, but silent viewers who have always understood the doctor to be a male part, and who are exasperated rather than enthusiastic about someone else's agenda for the show.

And this leads me to another point. The real issue here is not the fact that they have cast a female doctor. We don't need a female doctor. We need good parts for women, written for women. Don't shoehorn a woman into a male part: create fantastic roles for actresses to really make their marks in. One of the most interesting parts for a woman in a science fiction show in the last twenty years (and a middle aged woman at that) was that of Laura Roslin in Battlestar Galactica. I like to watch shows with parts like that. Whether I will like watching a female doctor is another matter entirely.
 
Space Chopper
BradPaula wrote:

I gave 36 years of my life to Doctor Who. Admittedly, I am still and always will be a Classic Who fan as I find the New Who often disappointing, but still I watched. I think this is the last straw. They tinkered with the character of the Master, made John Simm a laughing stock, and then chose 'Missy' a character which did a huge dis-service to past Masters, and now a FEMALE Doctor? Sorry, I cling to the idea that once a Time Lord is born, he or she remains the same gender throughout their regenerations. I am afraid the new show runners in trying to bring something new to the series, may be bringing about it's premature death. Instead of bringing new legions of fans in, I think they are thumbing their nose at us old-time fans. Sorry, but this may signal the end of fandom in the Whoverse for me. I will watch the Christmas special, but believe me, I am not a happy camper now. So glad I have most of the Classic episodes on tape or DVD. I can still watch my program and not worry if the new version sinks or swims.
Yes, I'm upset, angry, dejected and depressed today!


I'm with you all the way on this one. When I found out this afternoon, my heart sank and I felt low, almost as bad as when I first saw 'Blake' back in 81.

If any of you remember the comic relief skit on Dr Who that Moffat wrote before the new series took off, called 'The Curse of Fatal Death', everything that happened in the new series happened here first...
1) the Doctor wants to retire and marry his companion. (In Who, the Doctor wanted to retire in 'The Snowmen', and married his companion in 'The Wedding Of River Song'.
2) the Master tries to outwit the Doctor, but is in turn outwitted by the Doctor travelling further back in time to out-guess his next move. (In Who, this 'wibbly-wobbly, timey-wimey' stuff has been a staple of Moffat's writing since 'Blink'.)
3) the Master ends up in the sewers, and forms an alliance with the Daleks, and has 'Dalek bumps' fitted to his chest. (In Who, the Master, aka Missy, ended up in the sewers on Skaro after trying to forge an alliance with the Daleks in 'The Magician's Apprentice/ The Witch's Familiar', and doesn;t need Dalek bumps as she already has bumps of her own- the Master is now a woman who fancies the Doctor.)
4) The Doctor dies and regenerates so many times that his companion begs the universe to give him one last life, which it does, as the Doctor regenerates into a woman and runs off with the Master, who now fancies her. (In Who, 'The Time Of The Doctor', Clara begs the Timelords through the crack in time to give the Doctor a new set of regenerations- which they do. The next Doctor will be a woman, and Missy already fancied the current Doctor. There was even a line from Curse that was directly copy/pasted into this story, "Look after the universe for me, I've put a lot of work into it." )

Essentially, this series has now become everything that the parody was, so the parody is now no longer affectionate, irreverent fun, but a foreshadowing- this series has now become its' own parody. As such, I'm out. Chibnall had ONE job, to undo all the mess that Moffat created, and he's blown it before he even wrote a single episode, by making this disastrous casting decision.
Edited by Space Chopper on 17 July 2017 01:44:22
funkyimg.com/i/2y558.jpg
Vila: "I plan to live forever- or die trying..."
 
Space Chopper
dragonq wrote:
Being a fan of a certain age, who watched the programme go down the gurgler the first time, I have a strange sense of deja vu. Let's make a checklist as we circle the plug hole. A poor casting decision in the lead role. (In fairness, Colin Baker is excellent in Big Finish, so he can't take the all the blame for the awfulness of his performance on tv). A hated producer who would not let go and who insisted on shoe-horning his own vision into the programme against its history.

To be fair to JNT, he did want to go and do other things, but the BBC handcuffed him to the show and gave him a progressively smaller budget to work with each year. To produce what he did with what he had was nothing short of a miracle. The series actually started gaining viewers during the latter part of Sylvester McCoy's tenure. What killed the series off was Michael Grade hating everything it stood for, while having an affair with Colin Baker's wife at the time!
The real issue here is not the fact that they have cast a female doctor. We don't need a female doctor. We need good parts for women, written for women. Don't shoehorn a woman into a male part: create fantastic roles for actresses to really make their marks in. One of the most interesting parts for a woman in a science fiction show in the last twenty years (and a middle aged woman at that) was that of Laura Roslin in Battlestar Galactica. I like to watch shows with parts like that. Whether I will like watching a female doctor is another matter entirely.

Agreed, and one of the most iconic female roles in science fiction for me was Ellen Ripley in the Alien franchise. I predict disaster for the series- remember how popular the all-female Ghostbusters reboot was?
funkyimg.com/i/2y558.jpg
Vila: "I plan to live forever- or die trying..."
 
dragonq
Space Chopper, you are right to point out that JNT wanted to leave, but ended up trapped i the job, and you are also right about the hostility towards the show from above. JNT, however, did do an awful lot of damage during his tenure, and he has to take a lot of the blame for the way the show fell apart. If Dr Who dies again, likewise, Mr Moffat will need to take a lot of the blame, though I think the seeds of doom, if I may be excused the pun, were there from the very beginning of the series reboot (and yes, I am specifically thinking of the Rose/Doctor dynamic).

Ghostbusters. Ah yes. The controversy surrounding that had nothing to do with the general public's perception that a beloved old film starring the ne plus ultra of comic talent of its day, did not need remaking. It was entirely to do with the fact that everyone was sexist. Here's another idea: why don't we propose remaking Thelma and Louise with men in the main roles and see how that goes down?

The sad thing is that the decision to cast a female doctor is as unnecessary as it was inevitable. A noisy crowd was determined to have it, and would not let it go. If a man had been cast this time, the screams would have continued throughout his tenure and redoubled at the time of next casting.
 
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