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Current Poll

Who is your Favourite Guest Rebel?

Avalon - (Project Avalon)
Avalon - (Project Avalon)
18% [17 Votes]

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5% [5 Votes]

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15% [14 Votes]

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14% [13 Votes]

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5% [5 Votes]

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9% [9 Votes]

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6% [6 Votes]

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Started: 09 July 2016

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View Thread

From, off or off-of? What do you say?
Off (whatever) Off (whatever) 13%[1 Vote]
From (whatever) From (whatever) 63%[5 Votes]
Off of (whatver) Off of (whatver) 13%[1 Vote]
Other Other 13%[1 Vote]
Total Votes : 8
 Print Thread
From, off or off-of?
Travisina
This started as a discussion in the staff room as to which was the more correct - do you download something 'off' the internet or 'from' the internet? Do you get something 'off' your friend or 'from' your friend? How about 'off of' your friend?

Is there one correct version, or regional variants? We decided to stop de-railing the Moderator's forum and open the discussion to the general membership. What do you say?
Twitter: @TravisinaB7
Tumblr: tumblr
There's no point being grown up if you can't be childish sometimes
 
President Solvite
We are the knights that say 'NI'

For me they are interchangeable for certain situations. But in other contexts they can be grammatically untidy , mean different things totally or be complete nonsense. I am sure some examples of these will be cited in due course.

Here is an example from my days as a Land Surveyor (type of civil engineer) You need to take time back to about 1989/90 here prior to the widespread adoption of the internet!

We would work with electronic devices called 'Total Stations' which is a combination of a theodolite, electronic distance measuring tool, data storage (and nowadays GPS etc..) At the end of a long day on site this data would need to be downloaded to a computer for further processing on a desktop computer.

One of my job roles, since I was a young eager graduate surveyor, with a desire to tinker with computers would be to transfer the data 'OFF' the instrument. This would be via a Rec module (early example of solid state hard drive, 32K of data!) to a computer using the venerable serial cable interface (setting appropriate baud and handshake protocols so the devices would 'talk' to each other. Smile

A conversation could run either way in a office;

Can you get that data off the theodolite?

Or

Can you get that data from the theodolite?

In that instance and in that time (early 90's) The two terms off and from are virtually interchangeable. Of course, the second term could also refer to a type of media which has some recently downloaded data on it. (we're talking single sided 5.25" floppy disks here with a whopping 160k of data capacity!) With the person grabbing the disk and passing to the person needing to process it.

It is also possible that the second question is one of ability, IE. 'Can you do it?' But even then the first could apply as this was all new technology way back then! We're talking of an age before plug-n-play here Smile

Whereas the former statement could imply someone would have to perform the download task first before they could do the second. IE. the data is still on the original data source rather than the transfer media. But also the question of ability could also apply as back then this was all new and terms weren't perhaps so fixed.

In other contexts it doesn't work so well.

Avon is OFF his trolley - implies the poor chap is a little unhinged particularly in the fourth season.

Avon is FROM his trolley - is a bit nonsensical but might be uttered by Vila referring to Avon's bad call in spending a night on the town in some cheap dives! Grin
Edited by President Solvite on 14 May 2017 10:36:01
 
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Angry Angel
I feel that in the UK, at least in the area I live (south), taking something off the shelf, or downloading something off the internet is perfectly normal parlance. I think it feels just as comfortable to say as using 'from' instead of 'off'.
 
http://lucyravenscar.blogspot.com/
Joe Dredd
Is the poll asking what do people say (which is either) or what is correct usage?
 
dragonq
From is grammatically correct, (I got x from my sister)

off is colloquial (I got x off my sister)

and off of is just torturing the English language.
 
Travisina
Joe Dredd wrote:

Is the poll asking what do people say (which is either) or what is correct usage?

Both. Either. Up for discussion - examples welcome.
Twitter: @TravisinaB7
Tumblr: tumblr
There's no point being grown up if you can't be childish sometimes
 
Angry Angel
If you wouldn't say 'I took it off the shelf', would you not say 'I took it out of the cupboard' either?
 
http://lucyravenscar.blogspot.com/
President Solvite
I think it might also matter less with technology as many things like computer files aren't really tangible things you can see or feel.

But another thing I can reference is a disclaimer/instruction often seen on technical construction drawings from architects or engineers.

Do not scale off drawing. and on others Do not scale from drawing.

(a process where persons use a scale rule to take measurements from drawings. Whereas best practice dictates you only refer to stated dimensions on the plan.)

But then again what do they know? Sill, referring to sill heights is often spelt with a 'c' Pfft
 
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Joe Dredd
dragonq wrote:

From is grammatically correct, (I got x from my sister)

off is colloquial (I got x off my sister)

and off of is just torturing the English language.


That's my understanding too.

If something is on something else - on a shelf, for example - you can of course take it off (the shelf), but it's better to say you are taking it from the shelf.

PS makes a good point about the intangible nature of computer files. It strikes me that if you download a file (make a copy), it's still on the internet. Can you really say it's been taken off the internet if it's still there? (Not that this supports either argument; it's just a passing thought.)
 
President Solvite
Whilst walking the dog, AA and I were discussing how words fall into disuse or seem very strange in modern usage.

I remember an article instructing how to make a 'perfect' cup of tea. Dating from the 40's/50's I think.

It starts off with "Always use freshly drawn water"

Apart from well using cultures and possibly a pump this word seems very strange nowadays.

Staying with the tea making theme, the phrase "Put the kettle on" is also strange as most modern cultures using it would "Switch the kettle on" via means of an electric kettle. Or getting into the 21st Century. "Alexia, enable kettle heating app, as I really can't be asked to do diddly squat myself" Smile (Or words to similar effect)

This term whilst still relevant must be have a limited life expectancy as AGA/Rayburn users are pretty niche. Although I find it strange the US still seemingly hasn't got to grips with such a useful domestic appliance. Or is that a just a fallacy popular media conveys? Smile

Speaking of heating water, its time for my first coffee of the day! Grin
 
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littlesue
Speaking as a person of a certain age, who used to fill up the old kettle and put it on the gas stove and then wait......
...I still ask my dearest 'to put the kettle on.'
It's an electric one, plugged into the wall...
....which brings me to my next memory.
Back in the swinging 60s, during a Domestic Science lesson, the teacher (fag in mouth, making a cake...honest), asked someone to put the kettle on as it was almost break time.
The poor girl did...putting an electric kettle on the electric hob.
Well, she didn't know about these new fangled kettles. I'd never seen one until I started secondary school where all these mod cons were in the DS room.
As you can imagine, the ensuing smell and fumes made us run for the door!
We never did get to have a slice of that cake...complete with cigarette ash in it. But the staff room did..........................
Cold.....you don't know the meaning of cold.
Cold is when you have ice on the INSIDE of the window!!!


sues stories http://sjlittle.w...
sues youtube channel http://www.youtub...e54/videos
sues book shelf https://www.media...ne%20Shelf
rebel run video http://www.youtub...prqS-XZtLo
Lara and Sue's Stories http://lectorisal....webs.com/
 
Travisina
I love that we still talk about 'dialling' a phone number, even though phones haven't had rotary dials for about 40 years!

@littlesue - it's amazing any of us survived the 1960s, eh?
Twitter: @TravisinaB7
Tumblr: tumblr
There's no point being grown up if you can't be childish sometimes
 
littlesue
Travisina wrote:

I love that we still talk about 'dialling' a phone number, even though phones haven't had rotary dials for about 40 years!

@littlesue - it's amazing any of us survived the 1960s, eh?


Talking of telephones,

We didn't have a phone at home, (we was poor, we was Grin ) so to phone my dear Gran Up North (Lincoln) we had to write a letter to say when my Mum would be ringing. At the appointed hour, we would toddle off round to the telephone box, hoping no-one was using the phone; have a pile of pennies, phone the operator and ask for a Fulbeck number.
The phone would ring in the telephone box outside Gran's house.
Usually the neighbour at no. 6 heard it, came out, answered it..'Hello'
'Could you go and get Mrs Dawson at no. 8? It's her daughter here."
"All right...."
Minutes later, hence the pile of pennies, Gran would come on the line having totally forgotten about the letter!!!
How on Earth did we manage back then????
Cold.....you don't know the meaning of cold.
Cold is when you have ice on the INSIDE of the window!!!


sues stories http://sjlittle.w...
sues youtube channel http://www.youtub...e54/videos
sues book shelf https://www.media...ne%20Shelf
rebel run video http://www.youtub...prqS-XZtLo
Lara and Sue's Stories http://lectorisal....webs.com/
 
trevor travis
"From". Definitely "from" Wink
 
Joe Dredd
My Dad would get annoyed when someone would say "I'll ring them up" (rather than just "I'll ring them").

"There's no direction involved!" he would say.
 
Anniew
I am from the Uk of the species Homo Sapiens, a fact which which I learned from my schooling. I get off-of my chair to make myself coffee to keep myself from falling asleep. I hope this helps your deliberations.
Just because I can't sing doesn't mean I won't.
 
Ellen York
littlesue wrote:

Speaking as a person of a certain age, who used to fill up the old kettle and put it on the gas stove and then wait......
...I still ask my dearest 'to put the kettle on.'
It's an electric one, plugged into the wall...


I still "put the kettle on" even though it is an electric one.
 
Travisina
I speak off the cuff (and sometimes off the top of my head) but always from the heart Smile
Twitter: @TravisinaB7
Tumblr: tumblr
There's no point being grown up if you can't be childish sometimes
 
Travisina
Ellen York wrote:

littlesue wrote:

Speaking as a person of a certain age, who used to fill up the old kettle and put it on the gas stove and then wait......
...I still ask my dearest 'to put the kettle on.'
It's an electric one, plugged into the wall...


I still "put the kettle on" even though it is an electric one.

Same here. Although it's often been the source of Goon Show- style exchanges:

"Put the kettle on."
"Ngh. It doesn't fit me at all!"
Twitter: @TravisinaB7
Tumblr: tumblr
There's no point being grown up if you can't be childish sometimes
 
President Solvite
Hehe AA and I often exchange that joke albeit with different words Grin

A bit akin to

"Can you help me out?"
"Certainly, which way did you come in?"
 
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