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Current Poll

Who is your Favourite Guest Rebel?

Avalon - (Project Avalon)
Avalon - (Project Avalon)
18% [17 Votes]

Selma - (Horizon)
Selma - (Horizon)
5% [5 Votes]

Tyce - (Bounty)
Tyce - (Bounty)
15% [14 Votes]

Norm One - (Redemption)
Norm One - (Redemption)
2% [2 Votes]

Bek - (Shadow)
Bek - (Shadow)
6% [6 Votes]

Kasabi - (Pressure Point)
Kasabi - (Pressure Point)
19% [18 Votes]

Hal Mellanby - (Aftermath)
Hal Mellanby - (Aftermath)
14% [13 Votes]

Hunda - (Traitor)
Hunda - (Traitor)
5% [5 Votes]

Deva - (Blake)
Deva - (Blake)
9% [9 Votes]

Other
Other
6% [6 Votes]

Votes: 95
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Started: 09 July 2016

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Soolin
peladon
trevor travis wrote:

JustBrad wrote:

peladon wrote:

Not up to Jenna standards IMO...


Nobody is.


I disagree. Soolin is a more rounded and interesting character than Jenna. Also, Jenna is mostly a bit useless, where Soolin can actually look after herself. And save Avon's sorry backside (in both "Assassin" and "Warlord" ).


Dont see the evidence for that myself. From the first moment she enters Jenna is a 'real' person and her character, psychology and background is built quite quickly. She is also multi skilled being pilot,soldier and explorer all within the first series. Soolin on the other is pretty hollow and has only one real purpose for most of the penny dreadfuls, that being to shoot. Granted she gains a little more definiton towards the end but she remains a black and white sketch of character for most of her time.
 
trevor travis
peladon wrote:

trevor travis wrote:

JustBrad wrote:

peladon wrote:

Not up to Jenna standards IMO...


Nobody is.


I disagree. Soolin is a more rounded and interesting character than Jenna. Also, Jenna is mostly a bit useless, where Soolin can actually look after herself. And save Avon's sorry backside (in both "Assassin" and "Warlord" ).


Dont see the evidence for that myself. From the first moment she enters Jenna is a 'real' person and her character, psychology and background is built quite quickly. She is also multi skilled being pilot,soldier and explorer all within the first series. Soolin on the other is pretty hollow and has only one real purpose for most of the penny dreadfuls, that being to shoot. Granted she gains a little more definiton towards the end but she remains a black and white sketch of character for most of her time.


But don't we learn more about Soolin's background than Jenna. There's a reference to Jenna's mother in "Space Fall" - that's about it I think. Whereas information on Soolin's background is included in "Rescue", "Warlord", "Blake" for starters.

And Soolin is also multi-talented, her finest hour being "Assassin", where Tarrant and Avon completely mess everything up, and leave her to work everything out. Not to mention her quick thinking in "Warlord". And more than holding her own with Keiller in "Gold". And taking the initative with Orac in "Headhunter".
 
JustBrad
Jenna and Servalan in The Keeper.

Nuff said.
 
peladon
trevor travis wrote:



But don't we learn more about Soolin's background than Jenna. There's a reference to Jenna's mother in "Space Fall" - that's about it I think. Whereas information on Soolin's background is included in "Rescue", "Warlord", "Blake" for starters.

And Soolin is also multi-talented, her finest hour being "Assassin", where Tarrant and Avon completely mess everything up, and leave her to work everything out. Not to mention her quick thinking in "Warlord". And more than holding her own with Keiller in "Gold". And taking the initative with Orac in "Headhunter".


We dont know much about her family but we do know about her as an adult - which is what we really need to know. Her skills span several domains as I mentioned, whilst Soolin is essentially a gunfighter. She isnt stupid, and so she offers scope for development, but as written she remains the cliche - the long haired, tress tossing, blonde in the tight jumpt suit with a gun in her hand and a (sometimes) quick line in banter.
 
rojkerr1
love Soolin, her banter with Vila in HEADHUNTER IS VERY GOOD, as is her response to Oracs promise to fullfill her every desire, one of the classic moments in series 4 is her hysterical woman response in Assassin - there are two ways to deal with a hysterical woman, you didnt expect me to kiss her did you?! Very good at cold menace too, as in her threat to Avon in Blake. Love the way she settles in and enjoys the banter in Traitor and Sand, and her musings on the curse in Sand, she doesn't even rise to Vila telling her to shut up, seeming to understand his pain at Callys death, underrated character, very quick thinking in Warlords too!
 
Grade Four Ignorant
We do get some insight to Jenna's past in Bounty and Shadow. She has a past, possibly of a romantic nature, with Tarvin. Plus we know that even before she met Blake she was quite moral. She sold weapons to Avalon and refused to deal drugs for the Terra Nostra. The last action possibly leading to Largo selling her out to the Federation.
 
Sopron
Oooh, this is becoming a Jenna v. Soolin grudge match. Mods, should we move this to the Duel section and get a real argument going? I'd love to watch!
 
JustBrad
Sopron wrote:

Oooh, this is becoming a Jenna v. Soolin grudge match. Mods, should we move this to the Duel section and get a real argument going? I'd love to watch!


I'd rather watch Jenna and Soolin.... Grin

Everything seems a little too good natured for the duel thread, though we do appear to have wandered a bit from the topic. My fault. Well, partly my fault....

To be clear... Soolin is my second favorite B7 female character. She is one of the few bright spots in S4 prior to the plunge into the abyss.
 
Grade Four Ignorant
It's nice that, to make up for her only getting two grey jumpsuits to wear, she gets a different hairstyle each episode.
 
JustBrad
Grade Four Ignorant wrote:

It's nice that, to make up for her only getting two grey jumpsuits to wear, she gets a different hairstyle each episode.


I've often wondered about the costume designers for B7, they have some incredibly beautiful women, and dress them in jump suits (Aside from the occasional jaw dropping costume for Jenna or Servalan). Appropriate to the atmosphere of the show, but hardly ratings inducing.
 
Grade Four Ignorant
JustBrad wrote:

Grade Four Ignorant wrote:

It's nice that, to make up for her only getting two grey jumpsuits to wear, she gets a different hairstyle each episode.


I've often wondered about the costume designers for B7, they have some incredibly beautiful women, and dress them in jump suits (Aside from the occasional jaw dropping costume for Jenna or Servalan). Appropriate to the atmosphere of the show, but hardly ratings inducing.


Soloing looks good in the light greys and blues they give her. I like how they give her a matching waistcoat to wear in Animals.
 
Vanessa Doffenshmirtz
Grade Four Ignorant wrote:

We do get some insight to Jenna's past in Bounty and Shadow. She has a past, possibly of a romantic nature, with Tarvin. Plus we know that even before she met Blake she was quite moral. She sold weapons to Avalon and refused to deal drugs for the Terra Nostra. The last action possibly leading to Largo selling her out to the Federation.


While I like Jenna , I can't see the morality in gun running versus drug running. It's a fast death for many or a slow death for a few...the scales don't make a very good balance on that score.
I used to be such a sweet sweet thing
Till they got a hold of me.
 
Sopron
There was an article in today's Grauniad about the trials of panda breeding and I spotted this quote, which seems to have been lifted direct from Wiki:

When Ruth Harkness, a New York fashion designer, became the first foreigner to capture a live panda eight years later, she named it Su Lin, meaning “a little bit of something cute”

I know the spelling's a little off, and it's probably been raised before, but, thoughts?

Cool
 
Grade Four Ignorant
Vanessa Doffenshmirtz wrote:
While I like Jenna , I can't see the morality in gun running versus drug running. It's a fast death for many or a slow death for a few...the scales don't make a very good balance on that score.


I meant in the sense that she clearly respected Avalon for her anti-Federation stance.
 
helo_75
Soolin, stardrive, after slave mentions there's 155 hours of life support left..... "oh great, not only will we be dead, we'll be bored as well!", every bit as sarcastic as Avon, she was off camera too... one of the best lines in s4, soolin was every bit as morose as Avon, I often wondered how jenna would have played out as more the soolin type personality, preferably played by glynis, or better still soolin in from the start, no jenna.. I'll stand back now and watch the aftermath (no pun intended)
 
atomicmayo
JustBrad wrote:

Grade Four Ignorant wrote:

It's nice that, to make up for her only getting two grey jumpsuits to wear, she gets a different hairstyle each episode.


I've often wondered about the costume designers for B7, they have some incredibly beautiful women, and dress them in jump suits (Aside from the occasional jaw dropping costume for Jenna or Servalan). Appropriate to the atmosphere of the show, but hardly ratings inducing.


I'm actually really glad that they didn't make all the women's costuming intended exclusively for the straight male viewers. It looks like at times the women are actually fighting in a rebellion against a galactic federation and *not* looking cute for ratings which is nice, and for its time was probably one of the more forward-thinking things they did.

Anyway, to get back on topic - I like Soolin, but it seems very silly to compare her to the others beyond the fact that they used her simply to keep the same male-to-female ratio of crewmembers and in that respect she "replaced" Cally. I would've liked her more if we actually learned more substantive things about her. I want to say that she had some sort of moral compass, but she really could go either way. Ah well, I guess that's what fan fic is for.
my tumblr | my twitter | my deviantart | my patreon
 
http://i-fought-space.tumblr.com
Anniew
I think Soolin came into her own in Warlord. Stood up to Avon. Hated Zukan for his controlling ways with his daughter. Got Zeeona and Tarrant together not because of the sentimental Awwwe factor but because she felt she had the right to choose, quick thinking and clever. In there had been a season 5 and she was in it, she would have become so interesting. And yes she has a moral compass but she's no bleeding heart. She hates BS - can stick Avon because he's honest....neat in her mind as her hair.
Just because I can't sing doesn't mean I won't.
 
trevor travis
Anniew wrote:

I think Soolin came into her own in Warlord. Stood up to Avon. Hated Zukan for his controlling ways with his daughter. Got Zeeona and Tarrant together not because of the sentimental Awwwe factor but because she felt she had the right to choose, quick thinking and clever. In there had been a season 5 and she was in it, she would have become so interesting. And yes she has a moral compass but she's no bleeding heart. She hates BS - can stick Avon because he's honest....neat in her mind as her hair.


Hadn't Soolin already come into her own in Headhunter and, in particular, Assassin?

While Avon and Tarrant spend the whole of Assassin making one mistake after another and managing to get completely fooled by Piri (Cancer), it's Soolin who figures out what's going on and saves the day.

In a break with convention, it's Soolin who saves the helpless and tied up Avon, by flicking the spider/crab thing onto Piri, killing her instead. And she even gets the last word in, when Vila wonders what happened to Piri.

True she saves Avon again in Warlord with her quick thinking down on the planet, but she's already done it five episodes earlier!!
 
Anniew
Fair point TT. I suppose what I meant was that her hatred of Zukan is interesting because it hints at the presence of a controlling father figure in Soolin's life. It isn't just dislike - she implies she wants to kill him. It's such a strong personal reaction about something that doesn't personally affect her. She's the most openly women's libber of the female caste. ( note I said openly) and this is a little window into her psyche. Don't think we get the same glimpse in earlier episodes - except perhaps Games when she relishes the chance to outshoot herself.
Just because I can't sing doesn't mean I won't.
 
trevor travis
Anniew wrote:

Fair point TT. I suppose what I meant was that her hatred of Zukan is interesting because it hints at the presence of a controlling father figure in Soolin's life. It isn't just dislike - she implies she wants to kill him. It's such a strong personal reaction about something that doesn't personally affect her. She's the most openly women's libber of the female caste. ( note I said openly) and this is a little window into her psyche. Don't think we get the same glimpse in earlier episodes - except perhaps Games when she relishes the chance to outshoot herself.


Annie, I see what you mean.

Yes Warlord does display new territory in terms of that side of Soolin. After the death of her family, didn't she then spend time learning how to shoot from her family's killers, before shooting them herself? In which case, if Zukan reminded her of them, no-one wonder she dislikes Zukan so strongly. Or maybe Zeeona's plight reminds her of her own from her past.
 
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