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So this Avon/Cally thing
sooper mouse
I know there's a bunch of people who think there was something between them. Based on what we see on screen and the body language that doesn't seem to quite work, and apparently both Paul and Jan Chappel stated that it wasn't the case.

AS someone who enjoys watching the show without the sound sometimes, I don't see it. The beginning of Sarcophagus where Avon goes to Cally's cabin to see if she's OK is interesting if you look at the body language- Avon goes and gives her a staccato bark about regret but keeps a certain degree of distance.
Not even getting into the holy cow there's no chemistry there, but look at it
This starts as a - both facing the camera with like 3 ft between the.

pbs.twimg.com/media/Cxp-AmkXUAE9bV8.jpg

Then Cally turns and walks to Avon and the next one is him holding her at the distance by the elbow.

pbs.twimg.com/media/Cxp-dSQWEAEkBm-.jpg

Then she pushes him and walks away and he's left there for a minute and then follows her with a confused look on his face.

I know some people interpret this as evidence there's something between them, but this doesn't, in my opinion, hold water. It is at best evidence to the contrary.

And here's why.

Because while we could say that Avon is weird about caring and affection we already know that he shows affection and doesn't do personal space.
Because that's what he does with Blake. here's the final scene in Pressure Point
That is Avon caring and being there. Blake's falling to his knees and Avon's first instinct is to catch him.
pbs.twimg.com/media/Cxp9qEpWgAEMtRF.jpg

We know Cally does have some sympathy for Avon, glances and "loyalties", but I don't see more than that.


The kiss?
let's be serious, he doesn't kiss Cally, he kisses the alien. Avon has a record of throwing off female adversaries by surprise kiffs, and that's exactly what he does here.

My two cents.
I have concluded that Jenna is Blake-aware, Blake is Avon-aware, Avon is self-aware and Gan is rarely aware. Vila is merely wary. Cally is frequently more away than aware.
 
JustBrad
I agree that there wasn't a romantic relationship, but I disagree slightly as to why. Before Rumors of Death, Avon was still in love with Anna Grant, or more accurately, his flawed memory of Anna. After Rumors, as the love of his life turned out to be an agent running him, I doubt he ever trusted anyone completely again. And without trust, there can be no relationship.
 
BradPaula
In Blake's 7 fan fiction, it is a common theme. Also the Blake-Jenna, Tarrant-Dayna and occasionally Vila-Kerrill or even Soolin relationship or 'shipping' to use a fandom term. Perhaps it wasn't in the series as such but in the intervening years many of the fans have forged ahead and written such fan stories.
 
Rainesz
BradPaula wrote:

In Blake's 7 fan fiction, it is a common theme. Also the Blake-Jenna, Tarrant-Dayna and occasionally Vila-Kerrill or even Soolin relationship or 'shipping' to use a fandom term. Perhaps it wasn't in the series as such but in the intervening years many of the fans have forged ahead and written such fan stories.


I'm a big fan of reading between the lines and that's where the fun of fan speculation (and fan fiction!) comes in. You can explain it a hundred different ways why the characters behave as they did on the show... and all of them are correct and all of them are debatable as well. Wink
 
BradPaula
@Rainesz: I am in agreement. I have collected dozens of fan fics and the great thing is that they are so unique and have so many possible futures if you will. And Possible Futures was a good fan fic as I recall. Any fan of so many years seems to feel the need to either read or write fan fic, I've done both- and I guess it's just all a part of fandom. I think some of my favorite scenarios are stories fans write about what happens after Gauda Prime. I have read any number of stories and it's always fascinating to read exactly who survives to live again in fan fiction. I've written a fair bit myself. All a part of fandom I guess, and the need to continue the series whatever way. Before Big Finish, that was all we had but I am glad that many of us still writing. It's fun.
 
Rainesz
BradPaula wrote:

@Rainesz: I am in agreement. I have collected dozens of fan fics and the great thing is that they are so unique and have so many possible futures if you will. And Possible Futures was a good fan fic as I recall. Any fan of so many years seems to feel the need to either read or write fan fic, I've done both- and I guess it's just all a part of fandom. I think some of my favorite scenarios are stories fans write about what happens after Gauda Prime. I have read any number of stories and it's always fascinating to read exactly who survives to live again in fan fiction. I've written a fair bit myself. All a part of fandom I guess, and the need to continue the series whatever way. Before Big Finish, that was all we had but I am glad that many of us still writing. It's fun.


I absolutely agree! Grin I adore fan fiction. I used to think it was a guilty pleasure, but there are so many brilliant stories and interpretations out there and it only makes enjoyment of the show richer for me, I think. (And yes, I've written my share of it, too. And I always see it as good writing practice, as well as just, well, FUN. Wink )

There are some absolutely fantastic, beautifully written fan fics out there, all unique. It's a testament to the wonderfully realized characters that they are multi-faceted enough to lend themselves to all kinds of stories.
 
sooper mouse
JustBrad wrote:

I agree that there wasn't a romantic relationship, but I disagree slightly as to why. Before Rumors of Death, Avon was still in love with Anna Grant, or more accurately, his flawed memory of Anna. After Rumors, as the love of his life turned out to be an agent running him, I doubt he ever trusted anyone completely again. And without trust, there can be no relationship.


One has to wonder if he ever did trust anyone completely.
I have concluded that Jenna is Blake-aware, Blake is Avon-aware, Avon is self-aware and Gan is rarely aware. Vila is merely wary. Cally is frequently more away than aware.
 
sooper mouse
BradPaula wrote:

In Blake's 7 fan fiction, it is a common theme. Also the Blake-Jenna, Tarrant-Dayna and occasionally Vila-Kerrill or even Soolin relationship or 'shipping' to use a fandom term. Perhaps it wasn't in the series as such but in the intervening years many of the fans have forged ahead and written such fan stories.


oh, I'm familiar with the wonderful labyrinth of fandom and its many adorably convoluted paths.
But I'm only talking about the original series, and I can't see it in there.
I have concluded that Jenna is Blake-aware, Blake is Avon-aware, Avon is self-aware and Gan is rarely aware. Vila is merely wary. Cally is frequently more away than aware.
 
sooper mouse
JustBrad wrote:

I agree that there wasn't a romantic relationship, but I disagree slightly as to why. Before Rumors of Death, Avon was still in love with Anna Grant, or more accurately, his flawed memory of Anna. After Rumors, as the love of his life turned out to be an agent running him, I doubt he ever trusted anyone completely again. And without trust, there can be no relationship.


the only thing remotely close to a "why" I've given is "that's not what Avon caring looks like".
While there's a lot of evidence there's some sort of thing between Avon and Blake ( probably from Avon to Blake and never addressed) what with the touching, permanent personal space invasion and the body language... one has to wonder how much of that is Paul's exquisite scenery diet ( latter days Avon could outchew Brian Blessed without even breaking a sweat)
I have concluded that Jenna is Blake-aware, Blake is Avon-aware, Avon is self-aware and Gan is rarely aware. Vila is merely wary. Cally is frequently more away than aware.
 
trevor travis
'Shipping is fun!

It's normally not a formal part of the actual series, but part of fandom.

Of course, it's end of Sarcophagus when it was revealed that Cally has feelings for Avon - Avon uses it to defeat the alien. He can take away the power source of the alien (the ring) because the alien can't attack Avon in the same way it could Tarrant - because of Cally's feelings for Avon.

As for Avon's feelings for Cally, they are never clarified on-screen and therefore it remains in the realms of fandom.
 
sooper mouse
trevor travis wrote:

'Shipping is fun!

It's normally not a formal part of the actual series, but part of fandom.

Of course, it's end of Sarcophagus when it was revealed that Cally has feelings for Avon - Avon uses it to defeat the alien. He can take away the power source of the alien (the ring) because the alien can't attack Avon in the same way it could Tarrant - because of Cally's feelings for Avon.

As for Avon's feelings for Cally, they are never clarified on-screen and therefore it remains in the realms of fandom.


That was my interpretation- Cally does seem to have some feelings for Avon but there doesn't seem to be much in response.
I have concluded that Jenna is Blake-aware, Blake is Avon-aware, Avon is self-aware and Gan is rarely aware. Vila is merely wary. Cally is frequently more away than aware.
 
Rainesz
That was my interpretation- Cally does seem to have some feelings for Avon but there doesn't seem to be much in response.


My personal take on it is that Avon is being very guarded with whom he shows any affection for, post-Rumours. (I agree with Brad on this one.) He's been betrayed too much and this will only continue until he pretty has his breakdown on Gauda Prime. But that said, I think he has huge respect for Cally and defends her to Tarrant. I think the knowing look between the two at the end of Sarcophagus can be interpreted many, many ways. Wink

To the Fan Fiction Mobile!
 
trevor travis
sooper mouse wrote:

trevor travis wrote:

'Shipping is fun!

It's normally not a formal part of the actual series, but part of fandom.

Of course, it's end of Sarcophagus when it was revealed that Cally has feelings for Avon - Avon uses it to defeat the alien. He can take away the power source of the alien (the ring) because the alien can't attack Avon in the same way it could Tarrant - because of Cally's feelings for Avon.

As for Avon's feelings for Cally, they are never clarified on-screen and therefore it remains in the realms of fandom.


That was my interpretation- Cally does seem to have some feelings for Avon but there doesn't seem to be much in response.


With my fan head on, Avon seems to 'notice' Cally quite frequently. But Anna is the elephant in the room. And Sarcophagus takes just an episode after Rumours.

Cally is good for Avon, though. She's the one person who can get through to him. After her death, Avon has no-one to speak to. His problems with increasing stress in the final season would have been very different with Cally around. And after her death, he does realise the feelings he had for her. That's transferred into hate for Servalan, who Avon blames for Cally's death.

Of course, this is all fan speculation, but that's our job Grin

Interestingly, in B7 Magazine, Paul picked the following ladies as those Avon had feelings for: Anna, Meegat, Servalan and Cally.
 
sooper mouse
trevor travis wrote:

sooper mouse wrote:

trevor travis wrote:

'Shipping is fun!

It's normally not a formal part of the actual series, but part of fandom.

Of course, it's end of Sarcophagus when it was revealed that Cally has feelings for Avon - Avon uses it to defeat the alien. He can take away the power source of the alien (the ring) because the alien can't attack Avon in the same way it could Tarrant - because of Cally's feelings for Avon.

As for Avon's feelings for Cally, they are never clarified on-screen and therefore it remains in the realms of fandom.


That was my interpretation- Cally does seem to have some feelings for Avon but there doesn't seem to be much in response.


With my fan head on, Avon seems to 'notice' Cally quite frequently. But Anna is the elephant in the room. And Sarcophagus takes just an episode after Rumours.

Cally is good for Avon, though. She's the one person who can get through to him. After her death, Avon has no-one to speak to. His problems with increasing stress in the final season would have been very different with Cally around. And after her death, he does realise the feelings he had for her. That's transferred into hate for Servalan, who Avon blames for Cally's death.

Of course, this is all fan speculation, but that's our job Grin

Interestingly, in B7 Magazine, Paul picked the following ladies as those Avon had feelings for: Anna, Meegat, Servalan and Cally.


oh. notice, yes. But that's as far as it goes.
And feelings is such a large spectrum word.

Meegat... well I guess uncomfortable is a feeling too.

Then again if anyone asked Paul which characters did Avon have feelings for, he'd start complaining about Gareth constantly raping him so there's that
Edited by sooper mouse on 20 November 2016 11:30:19
I have concluded that Jenna is Blake-aware, Blake is Avon-aware, Avon is self-aware and Gan is rarely aware. Vila is merely wary. Cally is frequently more away than aware.
 
dragonq
A lot of the Avon/Cally stuff comes from Sarcophagus, and can thus be credited to that Queen of Shippers, Tanith Lee.
 
sooper mouse
dragonq wrote:

A lot of the Avon/Cally stuff comes from Sarcophagus, and can thus be credited to that Queen of Shippers, Tanith Lee.


even there, it's at best alluded to, and the chemistry on screen is awful.
I just find it annoying that it's being made such a big deal of, without any more real data than vague inferences. Some people keep forgetting to label their slash as such when they put them on various wikis.
I have concluded that Jenna is Blake-aware, Blake is Avon-aware, Avon is self-aware and Gan is rarely aware. Vila is merely wary. Cally is frequently more away than aware.
 
trevor travis
sooper mouse wrote:

dragonq wrote:

A lot of the Avon/Cally stuff comes from Sarcophagus, and can thus be credited to that Queen of Shippers, Tanith Lee.


even there, it's at best alluded to, and the chemistry on screen is awful.
I just find it annoying that it's being made such a big deal of, without any more real data than vague inferences. Some people keep forgetting to label their slash as such when they put them on various wikis.


Then again, at the age of six in 1980, after watching Sarcophagus, I thought Avon and Cally were boyfriend and girlfriend. You can definitely read it from that episode, if you're so inclined.

Relationships are far more than just physical closeness. There is an empathy between Cally and Avon and this is what people pick up on.
 
sooper mouse
trevor travis wrote:

sooper mouse wrote:

dragonq wrote:

A lot of the Avon/Cally stuff comes from Sarcophagus, and can thus be credited to that Queen of Shippers, Tanith Lee.


even there, it's at best alluded to, and the chemistry on screen is awful.
I just find it annoying that it's being made such a big deal of, without any more real data than vague inferences. Some people keep forgetting to label their slash as such when they put them on various wikis.


Then again, at the age of six in 1980, after watching Sarcophagus, I thought Avon and Cally were boyfriend and girlfriend. You can definitely read it from that episode, if you're so inclined.

Relationships are far more than just physical closeness. There is an empathy between Cally and Avon and this is what people pick up on.


Oh the empathy is definitely there. All I'm saying is that there's little to no evidence in the actual series of anything more than that.

There's more evidence of a relationship between Avon and Blake in that regard- there are 40+ scenes of them deliberately touching- and that doesn't include sitting next to each other or getting in each other's face, far more than there are of Avon touching anybody who isn't Orac. There are also more scenes of Avon being close to Vila than to Cally in the first 3 seasons as well.

If the intention was to play a sexual tension between Avon and Cally, it failed miserably. That being said, the chemistry between Blake and Jenna is beautifully made.

Avon has better on screen chemistry with pretty much anybody who isn't Tarrant or Gan than he has with Cally.

watch it with the sound off- it's a revelation.
I have concluded that Jenna is Blake-aware, Blake is Avon-aware, Avon is self-aware and Gan is rarely aware. Vila is merely wary. Cally is frequently more away than aware.
 
sooper mouse
and then there's this, in Weapon at 5:22


pbs.twimg.com/media/CxthwkLXEAAdBfL.jpg

while It's likely that Avon liked Cally, she was obviously too much of an idealist for him to endanger himself in a relationship with her. He already had one idealist to put his well being in danger every other day.
I have concluded that Jenna is Blake-aware, Blake is Avon-aware, Avon is self-aware and Gan is rarely aware. Vila is merely wary. Cally is frequently more away than aware.
 
sooper mouse
and of course, we know it because Avon says it in Rumours at 45:05

pbs.twimg.com/media/CxtlpAAWgAY6Gek.jpg

I don't know about you, but I don't see Avon jumping on anyone just after RoD.

And their interactions after that are minimal- He refuses to go after her in Ultraworld and has to be convinced by Tarrant and Dayna.
and then in Terminal
Tarrant "The why don't we ask him, then?"
Cally "rather you than me"

and then
"I don't need any of you"
Edited by sooper mouse on 20 November 2016 15:06:57
I have concluded that Jenna is Blake-aware, Blake is Avon-aware, Avon is self-aware and Gan is rarely aware. Vila is merely wary. Cally is frequently more away than aware.
 
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