Login

Username

Password



Not a rebel yet?
CLICK HERE to register.

Forgotten your password?
Request a new one from Orac HERE.

Current User Info

· Lurkers Lurking: 8

· Rebels Active: 0

· Total Rebels: 909
· Newest Rebel: John Hughes

Login Help

If you are having problems logging in, please bear in mind that if you originally registered at the site before 8th January 2014 and you haven't re-registered since that date your old login details will no longer work. If this is the case, please re-register, preferably with your former username. If you are having trouble with the registration process itself, try looking HERE and HERE for help and advice. If you need further assistance, please do CONTACT us.

Current Poll

Who is your Favourite Guest Rebel?

Avalon - (Project Avalon)
Avalon - (Project Avalon)
18% [17 Votes]

Selma - (Horizon)
Selma - (Horizon)
5% [5 Votes]

Tyce - (Bounty)
Tyce - (Bounty)
15% [14 Votes]

Norm One - (Redemption)
Norm One - (Redemption)
2% [2 Votes]

Bek - (Shadow)
Bek - (Shadow)
6% [6 Votes]

Kasabi - (Pressure Point)
Kasabi - (Pressure Point)
19% [18 Votes]

Hal Mellanby - (Aftermath)
Hal Mellanby - (Aftermath)
14% [13 Votes]

Hunda - (Traitor)
Hunda - (Traitor)
5% [5 Votes]

Deva - (Blake)
Deva - (Blake)
9% [9 Votes]

Other
Other
6% [6 Votes]

Votes: 95
Login to vote.
Started: 09 July 2016

Polls Archive

Forum Activity

Newest Articles

B7 Images

+ Cookies +

The Horizon website uses cookies to allow user log-in and navigation. The site does not host advertising that requires the use of third-party cookies. Registering as a member of this site implies your consent to the use of cookies.

View Thread

 Print Thread
Cally
peladon
JannaKalderash wrote:

I should think that would lead to a LOT of confusion; having THAT many clones, all with the same name.

Imagine a cluster of them in the same room and calling out "Cally!" and all of them turn their heads saying "Yes?"

Sloppy, sloppy, sloppy. Remind me NOT to get that particular bit of fiction.


Personally I thought the whole cloning business stupid. If there is one type of race who would avoid cloning I would have thought that it would be a race of telepaths. Then there was the fact that the only people with cloning technology in S2 were the clone masters - a control that doesnt work if a whole planet has the technology. At that point there is no suggestion that Auron was isolationist. All in all not one the better plots of SC and not Cally's finest hour. But the whole telepathy thing was misrepresented after S1, Cally states on Saurian Major that they can hear her thoughts if she wishes but there is no suggestion that she can hear theirs or any one else who isnt Auron.
Edited by Spaceship Dispatcher on 18 September 2014 21:42:19
 
JannaKalderash
peladon wrote:

JannaKalderash wrote:

I should think that would lead to a LOT of confusion; having THAT many clones, all with the same name.

Imagine a cluster of them in the same room and calling out "Cally!" and all of them turn their heads saying "Yes?"

Sloppy, sloppy, sloppy. Remind me NOT to get that particular bit of fiction.


Personally I thought the whole cloning business stupid. If there is one type of race who would avoid cloning I would have thought that it would be a race of telepaths. Then there was the fact that the only people with cloning technology in S2 were the clone masters - a control that doesnt work if a whole planet has the technology. At that point there is no suggestion that Auron was isolationist. All in all not one the better plots of SC and not Cally's finest hour. But the whole telepathy thing was misrepresented after S1, Cally states on Saurian Major that they can hear her thoughts if she wishes but there is no suggestion that she can hear theirs or any one else who isnt Auron.


Mostly because they didn't bother to get into contact with her. She was considered persona non grata after the failure at Saurian Major, so they wouldn't get into contact with her. Although I often wondered why her sisters never bothered. If only because she was their sister!

Again, not to mix tropes, but remember the Clone Masters of Kamino from Star Wars? Their whole planet had the technology to create batches of clones, tweaked to meet the needs of the clients. There was only one clone baby that wasn't tweaked, and he eventually became Boba Fett.

And from what I understood of the series, the Clone Masters had been creating clones for a couple of centuries, while on Auron, it was only one generation old at the most. Franton was a natural birth, not a clone, and Cally was about maybe ten years her junior; so maybe not everyone on the planet had a clone/twin.

From some of the zines I used to collect, I figures that there had been an illness that affected the men of Auron, reducing their fertility by some 85% overall. And with only 15% of them being fertile, that made things rather dicey when it came to keeping their numbers up.

Of that fifteen percent, there might be 5% that are already in a committed relationship and have no wish to sire children with other women. Another percentage would be too young to sire children; still another would be too old, and another would not be interested at all!

So that's why they finally came up with the cloning technology. Still it would only have made sense for some of the women to go out into the galaxy to find mates outside their race, and not only bring up the numbers, but enrich the DNA.

But, no one accused TV writers of having any logic. It's the same thing over here in the US.
 
Dtar
Another thought along the lines of clones.... If Cally is a clone, who are her "parents", because she says she sees them when looking into the sopron, in harvest of kairos...
Unsure
 
JustBrad
Dtar wrote:

Another thought along the lines of clones.... If Cally is a clone, who are her "parents", because she says she sees them when looking into the sopron, in harvest of kairos...
Unsure


Presumably the technicians that raised and cared for her.
 
AvonGreen
Back in the 80's, when i was but a wee thing of a boy, i confess to having a big big crush on Cally! Jan looked fabulous as Cally! Yes i agree, that she and her abilities were underused in the show, and that there was scope to use her for so much more. Her character also verged on being the crews medic, a much needed role for any ship! It was sad when she left the crew, and a rare sloppy mistake of Blake to leave her ALONE to guard several men at once. This is why police officers always work in pairs, hehe! She was far too gorgeous and innocent to kill off so early in the series. There again, something i always admired Terry Nation for, was his down to earth realism. Mistakes do happen at odd moments, and people do die unexpectedly.

In fact, i think Cally was Blakes most useful member, as it isessential to read emotions in one's enemies for strategic purposes.

Oh...and she always reminded me of Anita Dobson!
A.G.
 
Lurena
Dtar wrote:

Another thought along the lines of clones.... If Cally is a clone, who are her "parents", because she says she sees them when looking into the sopron, in harvest of kairos...
Unsure


Look what Avon brings up as explanantion (Harvest of Kairos):
Sopron is a mirror. A distorting mirror. It reflects a slightly greater image of whatever it is that happens to be scanning it. Zen saw a capacity charged brain, because that is what Zen is. Orac saw a highly sophisticated computer, because that is what Orac is. Cally thought that she saw her parents, but what she actually saw was herself.
Lara&Sue's Blake's 7 stories
*No, I am not. I am not expendable, I'm not stupid, and I'm not going.*
 
http://lectorisalutem.webs.com/
JannaKalderash
I had a few more thoughts to add to this thread.

You needn't necessarily just clone one person. Suppose for whatever reason, you and your husband desperately want a baby, but you can't carry to full term.

An egg can be harvested, and fertilized in a pertri dish, and then split into 'Oops' number of babies. The fetuses are placed in the placental unit, and are aged to birth weight.

The actual time they spend in the unit can be compressed, by using special nutrients that they are fed, which will guarantee high intelligence, certain empathic traits, etc.

And wasn't the whole telepathy thing a byproduct of hatching so many sets of identical siblings?

Once that particular batch of siblings is hatched, their genetic material is kept of profile for other prospective parents who are looking to adopt, or in case of emergency like when Servalan deliberately infected that pilot.
 
AvonGreen
Ah!!! Should there be any real life 'cally's' out there, then please wear your silkiest long white gown, and do not hesitate to get in touch, for quick marriage and extended honeymoon, to search for moondiscs and walk barefoot together along a warm lunar surface.
My spacepod awaits!
 
sooper mouse
I dislike Cally as a character. I never per se liked her, she seemed to just have been put there so there's more than one female character, and her behaviour is not tremendously rational.
It's not that everybody takes her over, it's the fact that she doesn't appear to have very good judgement, which is quite obvious in Breakdown- someone has to be pretty stupid to let Gan free.
Cally is more of a plot advancement mechanism than a well developped character, even Tarrant is better fleshed out than she is.
 
President Solvite
Cally is let down badly by the writers that is true. She is at her best in her first episode in my view. Her telepathy and the whole Auronar thing is never developed anywhere near its full potential.
 
http://nothingsforgotten.freeforums.net/
Travisina
Hi Sooper Mouse - welcome to the forum!

I'm interested in your view that Cally is more of a plot device than a character, and agree with PS that she was let down by the writers. The one-way telepathy was frequently (and conveniently) forgotten, her telekinesis - used once in 'Shadow' and never seen or mentioned again, her susceptibility to being taken over - even her background and history - were never fully realised.

But having said all of that, I do like the character, and think that Jan Chappell did a fine job of portraying her.
Twitter: @TravisinaB7
Tumblr: tumblr
There's no point being grown up if you can't be childish sometimes
 
sooper mouse
Travisina wrote:

Hi Sooper Mouse - welcome to the forum!

I'm interested in your view that Cally is more of a plot device than a character, and agree with PS that she was let down by the writers. The one-way telepathy was frequently (and conveniently) forgotten, her telekinesis - used once in 'Shadow' and never seen or mentioned again, her susceptibility to being taken over - even her background and history - were never fully realised.

But having said all of that, I do like the character, and think that Jan Chappell did a fine job of portraying her.


I think this is probably why she doesn't feel like a real character to me.
Like, it seems her main purpose is to advance the plot, how many episodes are there where the whole plot is "Cally gets taken over by thingy"? It's perhaps unfair to her, but she's never really fleshed out.

I mean every other character is fairly clear, they have their identity. Even the latter characters are better developed than her. Even Soolin has a better identity, but Cally seems just hollow. Things happen TO her but she doesn't make them happen. She had the potential to be the balancing element after Star One, but she never seems to step up to it. Too much of a victim, not enough of an actor.

I mean the most interesting things about her imho are two times when Avon is being his best attempt of a human being at her, the knowing smile after his "caring" statement during Duel (which I believe was about Blake and Cally knew) and his speech in the beginning of Sarcophagus that she reacts to by pushing him away.

Cally seems to be existing only by her rapport to other characters. There is an attempt to deepen her in the Children of Auron episode and then in Sarcophagus, but those are still other characters' development lines.
Children of Auron is Servalan's show, and Sarcophagus is actually pure Avon character dev, but where does that leave Cally?
I have concluded that Jenna is Blake-aware, Blake is Avon-aware, Avon is self-aware and Gan is rarely aware. Vila is merely wary. Cally is frequently more away than aware.
 
Travisina
Good points, Super Mouse - very well reasoned.

The problem possibly originally stemmed from Terry Nation's (self-confessed) inability to write for women as well as he did for men, then subsequent writers not being entirely sure what to do with her.
Twitter: @TravisinaB7
Tumblr: tumblr
There's no point being grown up if you can't be childish sometimes
 
sooper mouse
Travisina wrote:

Good points, Super Mouse - very well reasoned.

The problem possibly originally stemmed from Terry Nation's (self-confessed) inability to write for women as well as he did for men, then subsequent writers not being entirely sure what to do with her.


That may be, but he wrote Jenna really well. Jenna is a real character.
Maybe Nation could only write the alpha female parts? Cally would have required a deeper understanding of human nature than Nation ever had, but maybe that's just me.
I have concluded that Jenna is Blake-aware, Blake is Avon-aware, Avon is self-aware and Gan is rarely aware. Vila is merely wary. Cally is frequently more away than aware.
 
President Solvite
So its down to the writing then.. To be honest after the first few episodes, the final output script was down to Chris Boucher and whilst I enjoy much of his output, only Servalan seemed to be fleshed out more, partly as a counter to Avon.

Children of Auron isn't even a good Servalan episode in my view (that is Rumours, Aftermath and others) Personally speaking with CoA I was expecting more complex personas like Bradbury's Martians or Tolkien's elves in his works. Or even a darker version of Roddenberry's Vulcans.

Jan Chappell did well with what she had, but unfortunately I think a decision was taken to make it the 'Avon show' at the expense of the other characters. Personally I wish a more holistic approach was taken (but still keep Darrow's best moments. )

But hey-ho we are where we are and I still enjoy B7 despite my personal niggles (which I have with many of my favourite shows)
 
http://nothingsforgotten.freeforums.net/
trevor travis
I think Cally does have a defined character.

Unlike Blake, who is fuelled by ego and revenge, she genuinely believes in the cause. She believes there is a better way.

She's also the most moral member of the Liberator crew, and this leads to question both Blake (Star One) and Avon (COA).

We're shown a caring character. That's not to say she can't handle herself in a fight where needed (City), but at the same time, she'll tend the wounds of an injured crew member and cares about their well-being.

She shows clear affection at times towards Avon, and she's the one person who seems able to restrain his more self-destructive tendencies.

But the telepathy always seems as much a curse as a gift, because she has constant fear of being left alone.

There's much more to Cally than simply a character who gets taken over a lot.
 
sooper mouse
President Solvite wrote:

So its down to the writing then.. To be honest after the first few episodes, the final output script was down to Chris Boucher and whilst I enjoy much of his output, only Servalan seemed to be fleshed out more, partly as a counter to Avon.

Children of Auron isn't even a good Servalan episode in my view (that is Rumours, Aftermath and others) Personally speaking with CoA I was expecting more complex personas like Bradbury's Martians or Tolkien's elves in his works. Or even a darker version of Roddenberry's Vulcans.

Jan Chappell did well with what she had, but unfortunately I think a decision was taken to make it the 'Avon show' at the expense of the other characters. Personally I wish a more holistic approach was taken (but still keep Darrow's best moments. )

But hey-ho we are where we are and I still enjoy B7 despite my personal niggles (which I have with many of my favourite shows)


I expected that sort of development from CoA, I mean if they were all telepaths why did they ever need to talk to each other? Telepathy in many cases doubles with a certain degree of empathy, how come on a whole planet of telepaths nobody read Servalan?

I agree she made the best of what she had.
I have concluded that Jenna is Blake-aware, Blake is Avon-aware, Avon is self-aware and Gan is rarely aware. Vila is merely wary. Cally is frequently more away than aware.
 
trevor travis
Travisina wrote:

Good points, Super Mouse - very well reasoned.

The problem possibly originally stemmed from Terry Nation's (self-confessed) inability to write for women as well as he did for men, then subsequent writers not being entirely sure what to do with her.


Terry couldn't write for women? I'm going to disagree.

Here's the reasons why:
1. Servalan: a mould breaking female character.
2. Abby Grant: the LEAD character of Survivors. Terry not only writes exceptionally for her in the series, but also writes for her very well in his Survivors book.
3. Jenny (also Survivors). Terry also shows he can write for a younger, more vulnerable character. The first and third most important characters in the first season of Survivors are female.
4. Jenna Stannis: very strongly written for the first few episodes. The character slips back, but Sally has taken responsibility for this, explaining how inexperienced she was at the time, and therefore she didn't take the ball and run with it, and the writers therefore concentrated more on other characters.
5. Dayna: gets off to a VERY strong start in Aftermath and Powerplay.
 
President Solvite
Terry of course didn't write (fully in some cases) the later episodes. So some responsibility on this must lie with CB being the script editor.

In a way this is why I prefer the earlier B7 seasons as I find this is where B7 was ahead of its time. Having strong female characters who could (at times) go toe to toe with their male contemporaries.
 
http://nothingsforgotten.freeforums.net/
sooper mouse
President Solvite wrote:

Terry of course didn't write (fully in some cases) the later episodes. So some responsibility on this must lie with CB being the script editor.

In a way this is why I prefer the earlier B7 seasons as I find this is where B7 was ahead of its time. Having strong female characters who could (at times) go toe to toe with their male contemporaries.

Oh yes, Jenna held her own against anyone.
I always wondered if she actually was written like that or just took the character and made it her own like Paul did with Avon. I'd have loved to see her in the third series without Blake, she'd have made an awesome foe for Avon, better than Tarrant ever could
I have concluded that Jenna is Blake-aware, Blake is Avon-aware, Avon is self-aware and Gan is rarely aware. Vila is merely wary. Cally is frequently more away than aware.
 
Jump to Forum:
Orac rendered this page in 0.82 seconds
9,123,034 unique visits since 8th January 2014