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Interesting trend in B7
sooper mouse
I was referring to this, which is not a paul book
images-eu.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51JXFYsmTSL._AA300_.jpg

Licensed material counts as canon doesn't it?
I have concluded that Jenna is Blake-aware, Blake is Avon-aware, Avon is self-aware and Gan is rarely aware. Vila is merely wary. Cally is frequently more away than aware.
 
trevor travis
sooper mouse wrote:

I was referring to this, which is not a paul book
images-eu.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51JXFYsmTSL._AA300_.jpg

Licensed material counts as canon doesn't it?


That's a complete alternative universe Grin Grin A universe in which Avon is not even Avon, but played by an impostor Wink I didn't realise you preferred Colin Salmon. Personally, I find it difficult to accept anyone but Paul Darrow as Avon.

But a re-imagining cannot be considered the part of the same canon, because there's two completely different histories and some basic facts have been altered. It's got its own completely separate continuity.

Come on, you need to do better than that.
 
sooper mouse
BradPaula wrote:

Sooper Mouse posts: "And I dare you to show me one place in the scripts where it says Avon was born on Earth."

I could twist that around on you and say, prove to me that he wasn't born on Earth on the scripts. If you accept Paul Darrow's Genesis series of books from Big Finish as canon, then fine. I accept the series only as canon, whether Big Finish holds the license for the franchise or not. It cuts both ways, only we're on different sides of the debate. But then, that is what makes debating this so much fun. As long as we are civil to our fellow fan club members while debating these topics, fine.

By the way- to be fair, I did not in fact like the Paul Darrow books, the main point being to me it was not proper Blake's 7 in content and it seemed to be more of a 'no name cowboy' type of story with an aging and very different Federation and indeed Avon himself. But as I have said, we are all entitled to our opinions about Blake's 7 and I understand many did like the books, so fine again. But to me, not Blake's 7 at all.


so you are only willing to accept what you like.

Anyway, the whole point of fandom and the reason why we're still talking about it 35 years later is because of the ambiguities isn't it?
If you only accept the original series as canon, there's nothing in the scripts saying that Avon was alpha grade, and absolutely no mention of his place of birth.

I ran a regex script through all of the episode scripts, and I can probably set up an audio matching script to go through each episode.
I have concluded that Jenna is Blake-aware, Blake is Avon-aware, Avon is self-aware and Gan is rarely aware. Vila is merely wary. Cally is frequently more away than aware.
 
dragonq
I don't think there's any point in getting het up about this.

The Rebellion Reborn audios have their own separate continuity, so if you try and tie those in with the tv series you're asking for a migraine. The Big Finish plays dovetail in reasonably well, but there are numerous instances where you have to take the storylines for what they are and not get too worked up about the liberties that are taken with the original material. I tend to cope by reminding myself that the tv series was also full of internal inconsistencies!

The Big Finish plays have Avon, Jenna and Vila all having back stories on colony worlds. The Avon play I thought was weak, and very difficult to reconcile with the tv series. The Jenna one was OK and Vila's backstory was also unbelievable when considered in the context of the tv series but redeemed as entertainment by the brilliant performances of Michael Keating and David Warner.

Despite these new plays, I still think all these characters were meant to come from Earth, and that this is the default unless otherwise specified (as with Cally and Soolin).

All the new stories are just interpretations of and additions to the original material. I am happy to listen to them and take them as I find them. If I find a story I think is ridiculously inconsistent I just don't listen to it again. Above all, it's not meant to be holy writ. Think of it like King Arthur or Robin Hood. The tales grow in the telling.
 
StarOne
Anyway, is it ever stated that Gan is from Earth?
This is stupid!
 
sooper mouse
dragonq wrote:

I don't think there's any point in getting het up about this.

The Rebellion Reborn audios have their own separate continuity, so if you try and tie those in with the tv series you're asking for a migraine. The Big Finish plays dovetail in reasonably well, but there are numerous instances where you have to take the storylines for what they are and not get too worked up about the liberties that are taken with the original material. I tend to cope by reminding myself that the tv series was also full of internal inconsistencies!

The Big Finish plays have Avon, Jenna and Vila all having back stories on colony worlds. The Avon play I thought was weak, and very difficult to reconcile with the tv series. The Jenna one was OK and Vila's backstory was also unbelievable when considered in the context of the tv series but redeemed as entertainment by the brilliant performances of Michael Keating and David Warner.

Despite these new plays, I still think all these characters were meant to come from Earth, and that this is the default unless otherwise specified (as with Cally and Soolin).

.


BUt we don't know that. It's probably safer to assume that only the people stated explicitly as being born on earth were.

My view was that people did travel between planets and moved amongst them for various reasons, so assuming they all stayed on their own planets is not tremendously justified. It's like saying today that everyone stays in their own country.

Just because I take the train from London doesn't mean I was born there.

Also it's possible the federation control is a lot stronger on earth than anywhere else.
Edited by sooper mouse on 20 November 2016 13:25:08
I have concluded that Jenna is Blake-aware, Blake is Avon-aware, Avon is self-aware and Gan is rarely aware. Vila is merely wary. Cally is frequently more away than aware.
 
sooper mouse
StarOne wrote:

Anyway, is it ever stated that Gan is from Earth?


Wikipedia has him as a native of Zephron... from one of the B7 books?
I think the only characters that are certain to be born on earth are Blake, Jenna, Vila, Dayna and Tarrant.
Which was kinda my whole point.
I have concluded that Jenna is Blake-aware, Blake is Avon-aware, Avon is self-aware and Gan is rarely aware. Vila is merely wary. Cally is frequently more away than aware.
 
trevor travis
sooper mouse wrote:

StarOne wrote:

Anyway, is it ever stated that Gan is from Earth?


Wikipedia has him as a native of Zephron... from one of the B7 books?
I think the only characters that are certain to be born on earth are Blake, Jenna, Vila and Tarrant.
Which was kinda my whole point.


Hold on... why is e.g. Jenna from Earth and Avon not? You seem to be picking and choosing. You can only go on what we're presented on screen, and only Cally (Auron) and Soolin (of human origin, but from Gauda Prime) are stated not to be from Earth. None of the others.

The reference to Gan coming from Zephron was a fiction created in Tony Attwood's programme guide from 1983. It doesn't come from the series. Don't ever trust Wikipedia without checking it sources - it's infamous Grin
Edited by trevor travis on 20 November 2016 13:37:51
 
sooper mouse
trevor travis wrote:

sooper mouse wrote:

StarOne wrote:

Anyway, is it ever stated that Gan is from Earth?


Wikipedia has him as a native of Zephron... from one of the B7 books?
I think the only characters that are certain to be born on earth are Blake, Jenna, Vila and Tarrant.
Which was kinda my whole point.


Hold on... why is e.g. Jenna from Earth and Avon not? You seem to be picking and choosing. You can only go on what we're presented on screen, and only Cally (Auron) and Soolin (of human origin, but from Gauda Prime) are stated not to be from Earth. None of the others.

The reference to Gan coming from Zephron was a fiction created in Tony Attwood's programme guide from 1983. It doesn't come from the series.


I thought Servalan referring to her as an alpha was implying it, but you're probably correct. Yet, if you choose to pick and choose, you're automatically losing the right to complain when others do the same.
We have characters stated to be from earth, characters stated not to be from earth and characters whose origin is not stated. Avon falls in the last category.
Which still puts the premise of the thread in question.

That being said, a case can be made that anything released by the BBC in connection to the original series is automatically canon, which is an accepted convention in most fandoms.
I have concluded that Jenna is Blake-aware, Blake is Avon-aware, Avon is self-aware and Gan is rarely aware. Vila is merely wary. Cally is frequently more away than aware.
 
trevor travis
sooper mouse wrote:
That being said, a case can be made that anything released by the BBC in connection to the original series is automaticaly canon, which is an accepted convention in most fandoms.


I think everything released by the BBC at the time - i.e. by the original production office - tends to be accepted as part of the canon.

After all, this is where "the third century of the second calendar" reference originates from.

And if Avon was born someone other than Earth, he'd tell us. Repeatedly. To show that it makes him superior to Blake. He's that sort of chap Wink
 
sooper mouse
trevor travis wrote:

sooper mouse wrote:
That being said, a case can be made that anything released by the BBC in connection to the original series is automaticaly canon, which is an accepted convention in most fandoms.


I think everything released by the BBC at the time - i.e. by the original production office - tends to be accepted as part of the canon.

After all, this is where "the third century of the second calendar" reference originates from.

And if Avon was born someone other than Earth, he'd tell us. Repeatedly. To show that it makes him superior to Blake. He's that sort of chap Wink


would he? he's actually very economical with the personal details.
He refused to tell Blake about Anna and the only time he gives any personal background is in Space Fall, and then to Del Grant.

I don't think Avon would need to use his social origin as a one up. It would actually be out of character to do that since social origin is not a factor he could control and thus could take credit for.
I have concluded that Jenna is Blake-aware, Blake is Avon-aware, Avon is self-aware and Gan is rarely aware. Vila is merely wary. Cally is frequently more away than aware.
 
Astullken
StarOne wrote:

Anyway, is it ever stated that Gan is from Earth?


Actually it isnt. He just shows up on the London. There was the original BBC ad pack for the journaiststs describing the show and the characters at the time of the premere, but many of the details from that were based on the original pitch ideas and were changed over time before filming. David Jackson said he has rather fond of the fan idea of Gan being from a frontier agriculrural planet and only brought to Earth for thel imiter implantation.
"Blake is sitting up in a tree. Travis is sitting up in another tree. Unless they are planning to throw nuts at one another I don't see much of a fight developing before it get light!" --Avon
 
sooper mouse
Astullken wrote:

StarOne wrote:

Anyway, is it ever stated that Gan is from Earth?


Actually it isnt. He just shows up on the London. There was the original BBC ad pack for the journaiststs describing the show and the characters at the time of the premere, but many of the details from that were based on the original pitch ideas and were changed over time before filming. David Jackson said he has rather fond of the fan idea of Gan being from a frontier agriculrural planet and only brought to Earth for thel imiter implantation.


regex script confirms this.
I have concluded that Jenna is Blake-aware, Blake is Avon-aware, Avon is self-aware and Gan is rarely aware. Vila is merely wary. Cally is frequently more away than aware.
 
trevor travis
Astullken wrote:

StarOne wrote:

Anyway, is it ever stated that Gan is from Earth?


Actually it isnt. He just shows up on the London. There was the original BBC ad pack for the journaiststs describing the show and the characters at the time of the premere, but many of the details from that were based on the original pitch ideas and were changed over time before filming. David Jackson said he has rather fond of the fan idea of Gan being from a frontier agriculrural planet and only brought to Earth for thel imiter implantation.


Interesting theory. I can see it in Gan's case far more than Avon's (who seems to come from a well-to-do Earth family, although that is supposition). And it would explain why Gan has less than an education than some of the others.

Although doesn't Gan say something about "coming back to Earth" in Pressure Point?
 
sooper mouse
trevor travis wrote:

Astullken wrote:

StarOne wrote:

Anyway, is it ever stated that Gan is from Earth?


Actually it isnt. He just shows up on the London. There was the original BBC ad pack for the journaiststs describing the show and the characters at the time of the premere, but many of the details from that were based on the original pitch ideas and were changed over time before filming. David Jackson said he has rather fond of the fan idea of Gan being from a frontier agriculrural planet and only brought to Earth for thel imiter implantation.


Interesting theory. I can see it in Gan's case far more than Avon's (who seems to come from a well-to-do Earth family, although that is supposition). And it would explain why Gan has less than an education than some of the others.


well we know he went to university... so he was definitely not a lower grade, but was the grade system active anywhere but on Earth?
since he obviously went to a good university, he obviously came from money but not a lot of them or maybe the family money was lost to him?
It's the Earth part i have issues with.
I have concluded that Jenna is Blake-aware, Blake is Avon-aware, Avon is self-aware and Gan is rarely aware. Vila is merely wary. Cally is frequently more away than aware.
 
trevor travis
sooper mouse wrote:
It's the Earth part i have issues with.


And it's not from Earth part that I have issues with. Where's the proof? There's far more to suggest Avon was Earth-based, even if we're never shown his birth certificate Wink
 
sooper mouse
trevor travis wrote:

sooper mouse wrote:
It's the Earth part i have issues with.


And it's not from Earth part that I have issues with. Where's the proof? There's far more to suggest Avon was Earth-based, even if we're never shown his birth certificate Wink


oh but i don't need proof, I just need reasonable doubt to contest the premise of the thread.
It works both ways.

There is no data either way that shows anything more than the fact Avon lived on earth for a while.
I have concluded that Jenna is Blake-aware, Blake is Avon-aware, Avon is self-aware and Gan is rarely aware. Vila is merely wary. Cally is frequently more away than aware.
 
President Solvite
My thoughts, take this or not as you will.

It is my opinion most of the London prisoners were from Earth (i.e.. born there or living there on a long term basis.)

Since Hyperdrive (ref. Spacefall) running is expensive, I doubt that the Federation would needlessly ferry prisoners around the Federation without a good reason. If a criminal committed a crime on a frontier planet they would be tried and convicted there (or on another close frontier world most likely )

It is interesting the concept of Gan being from a frontier planet (outer world?) Maybe, maybe not. Possibly Avon, but we have no episodic proof of this ,or being born on Earth for that matter. But having said that I think the most LIKELY probability is that all (but a choice few )of the London convicts would be Earth natural borns. Ro's friend being a rare or unique exception.

Paul's books, BF audios, Hoyle's novelisations, the reimagined audios whilst being *cough* interesting are not primary canon. But are in a secondary or tertiary capacity and as long as they reasonably fit well , can be appended to episodic events. But episodes take precedence in the case of any 'conflicts', well in my view anyway.
 
http://nothingsforgotten.freeforums.net/
sooper mouse
President Solvite wrote:

My thoughts, take this or not as you will.

It is my opinion most of the London prisoners were from Earth (i.e.. born there or living there on a long term basis.)

Since Hyperdrive (ref. Spacefall) running is expensive, I doubt that the Federation would needlessly ferry prisoners around the Federation without a good reason. If a criminal committed a crime on a frontier planet they would be tried and convicted there (or on another close frontier world most likely )

It is interesting the concept of Gan being from a frontier planet (outer world?) Maybe, maybe not. Possibly Avon, but we have no episodic proof of this ,or being born on Earth for that matter. But having said that I think the most LIKELY probability is that all (but a choice few )of the London convicts would be Earth natural borns. Ro's friend being a rare or unique exception.

Paul's books, BF audios, Hoyle's novelisations, the reimagined audios whilst being *cough* interesting are not primary canon. But are in a secondary or tertiary capacity and as long as they reasonably fit well , can be appended to episodic events. But episodes take precedence in the case of any 'conflicts', well in my view anyway.


well, nobody said they'd ferry prisoners across did they? That being said, the federation has a lot of planets. Not all of them can afford to send ships to dump prisoners to Cygnus Alpha etc. Or have enough criminals to make it worthwhile?
SO maybe there are like regional planet centres that gather all the local system criminals then send them through?

Just saying- we don't actually KNOW.

Also Earth being the capital of the federation , a lot of people, good or bad, would be attracted to it as an easier place to advance or scrape a living.
I have concluded that Jenna is Blake-aware, Blake is Avon-aware, Avon is self-aware and Gan is rarely aware. Vila is merely wary. Cally is frequently more away than aware.
 
trevor travis
sooper mouse wrote:
Also Earth being the capital of the federation , a lot of people, good or bad, would be attracted to it as an easier place to advance or scrape a living.


How would they travel there, Sooper Mouse? Surely only the super-wealthy could do that? And they'd be wanting to leave the over-populated Earth rather than move to it.

If you're on Earth and don't have the connections, you'd be stuck there.
 
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