Login

Username

Password



Not a rebel yet?
CLICK HERE to register.

Forgotten your password?
Request a new one from Orac HERE.

Current User Info

· Lurkers Lurking: 16

· Rebels Active: 0

· Total Rebels: 923
· Newest Rebel: Jon Crockford

Login Help

If you are having problems logging in, please bear in mind that if you originally registered at the site before 8th January 2014 and you haven't re-registered since that date your old login details will no longer work. If this is the case, please re-register, preferably with your former username. If you are having trouble with the registration process itself, try looking HERE and HERE for help and advice. If you need further assistance, please do CONTACT us.

Current Poll

Who is your Favourite Guest Rebel?

Avalon - (Project Avalon)
Avalon - (Project Avalon)
18% [17 Votes]

Selma - (Horizon)
Selma - (Horizon)
5% [5 Votes]

Tyce - (Bounty)
Tyce - (Bounty)
14% [14 Votes]

Norm One - (Redemption)
Norm One - (Redemption)
2% [2 Votes]

Bek - (Shadow)
Bek - (Shadow)
7% [7 Votes]

Kasabi - (Pressure Point)
Kasabi - (Pressure Point)
19% [18 Votes]

Hal Mellanby - (Aftermath)
Hal Mellanby - (Aftermath)
14% [14 Votes]

Hunda - (Traitor)
Hunda - (Traitor)
5% [5 Votes]

Deva - (Blake)
Deva - (Blake)
9% [9 Votes]

Other
Other
6% [6 Votes]

Votes: 97
Login to vote.
Started: 09 July 2016

Polls Archive

Forum Activity

Newest Articles

B7 Images

+ Cookies +

The Horizon website uses cookies to allow user log-in and navigation. The site does not host advertising that requires the use of third-party cookies. Registering as a member of this site implies your consent to the use of cookies.

View Thread

 Print Thread
If Gan lived...
AvonGreen
Gan was a great character, and important to the crew. My only quibble, is that stories should have included him alot more. He tended to be left out of the action sometimes, but being so close to blake, his loyalty was an asset to the show.
 
sooper mouse
If Gan had lived, he wouldn't been picked up by Avon following the war. A bit like Blake and Jenna.


Ah but he's with Vila and Avon finds Vila useful so he'd have had to pick up Gan too. He'd have moved a lot of space to pick up Jenna if he hadn't been presented with Tarrant as an alternative pilot. No Tarrant and Blake and Jenna together and Avon would ( reluctantly) have had to pick up Blake too.




Not really. In case you have forgotten, he has Orac and in Horizon we know Orac and Zen can pilot the ship so it never goes near a Federation ship ever again.

Gan would also be pushing for Avon to pick up Blake, so Avon wouldn't have picked him up either.


no actual evidence of this. That being said, Gan's use and importance seem to me are being greatly exaggerated.
Whether or not Gan was in any position to push Avon to do anything, is very debatable. I am sorry but Gan is not remotely important enough in my opinion to be able to affect anything.

Avon wants the Liberator to himself.


Avon has wealth and he has the Liberator. He doesn't have to go after Blake. he doesn't even have to try and get Vila and Cally because he doesn't need them. He's not a rebel, he doesn't want to keep on fighting, he wants to go away and be safe and for that all of the rest are burdens. Including Dayna, who's to stupid to shoot at Servalan when she has her in range at the end of Aftermath.

But Avon and Blake?
They did have an understanding in Star One, remember? Blake agreed to let Avon have the Liberator after Star One.
So Avon stood in the breach, and did his best, and in case you forgot, the rest weren't entirely keen to go along with it.

As in, when all the rest wanted to turn tail, he chose to stay and endanger himself and them and the Liberator because he promised Blake.
Which actually makes him a better person than the rest combined.

He kept his promise to Blake, so they kept to their agreement, after all he know that Blake and Jenna were safe in Aftermath.

Plus, we know contact was made by Zen with Blake, but we are not told whether Blake requested to be picked up. Jusding by the earlier scenes in Star One, he probably didn't because Avon kept his end of the deal so obviously Blake held his own.

AVON Zen, this is Avon. Have you any information about the rest of the crew?
ZEN Direct instructions have been received from Blake.
AVON Where is he? Is he safe?
ZEN He reports he's uninjured. A locator malfunction at the time of transmission made it impossible to calculate his exact position.

also, before that

ZEN Damage control estimates breakdown is now beyond the capacity of auto-repair systems in all areas. Serious malfunction in life support would indicate evacuation by life capsule a priority one requirement. [Vila opens a life support capsule and checks inside. Avon and Cally enter the corridor with Orac and its carrying case]
VILA We've got to get out of here. [To Cally] Where have you been? Where have you been?
CALLY Blake didn't want to leave.
VILA Well, I do!
AVON I'm surprised you're still here.
VILA Where's Jenna? We haven't got to wait for her, have we?
CALLY Jenna's gone with Blake.

And in Powerplay

AVON Zen, I want a status check. Keep it down to basics, I don't have too much time.
ZEN All systems are fully operational. Computers are responding to a program of search, locate and recovery.
AVON Have you anything on Blake's whereabouts?
ZEN His last voice transmission reported that he is safe and well and en route for the planet Epheron.

and Jenna

AVON Don't give me the whole thing, I'll punch up the reference. What about the others?
ZEN Jenna received superficial injuries in a life capsule malfunction.
AVON Is she all right?
ZEN She reports she is well and aboard a neutral cargo carrier in transit to the planet Morphenniel. She advises that her situation requires no priority treatment.

That doesn't sound to me like either Blake or Jenna wanted to come back.

The rest are your own inferences and projections. Not to mention that Avon underwent a lot of changes in between Aftermath and Terminal.


I suspect that Avon's plans in "Terminal" are acquiring whatever wealth that Blake says he has, and then leaving him again. Maybe killing him as well. Get rid of Blake once and for all. It's what he does in the final episode after all.

Avon does not want Blake back. That's very clear. In "Blake", he's the last resort after Zukan.


This is the biggest most unadulterated pile of projection I have ever seen.
All he had to do to kill Blake was leave him there. Blake's vastly incompetent and would have managed to get himself killed without much effort. As far as he knew, Blake was there. Leave him alone and he can't possibly be any sort of trouble to Avon.


If Avon's interests were just his own, he would not have refused the other's help, and he sure as daylight wouldn't have programmed the Liberator to go away if anything happened to him.
Not go in alone, into the unknown WHILE DOING HIS BEST TO PROTECT THE OTHERS FROM THE CONSEQUENCES OF HIS DECISION ( going through the space acid could was pretty dumb tho but he didn't know it at the time).

Because Avon actually cares more about his crewmates than Blake. Finding Blake was his quest, he didn't want to endanger the others.
Cally died because they're all a bunch of cretins who couldn't listen to him when he told them to stay back and not come after him.



Avon still has his share of the 10 million him and Vila got in Gambit- where would he have spent it? Plus the Liberator strong room.

Avon could have left on Horizon if he so chose- he could have just sodded off, he had a couple of hours until the flotilla arrived.
He chose to stay and save the rest of them. 2 hours would have been long enough for him to disappear, but when push came to shove he chose his friends' interests over his own.

Pound by pound, if Avon wanted to take the Liberator sooner, he could have had it at any point. Just leave them down somewhere. He could have done that on several occasions when they only survived because he big damn hero'd on them.
All he had to do was to just let them all fall prey to their unbelievable idiocy and then shrug and go his own way. They only stayed alive as long as they did because Avon kept saving their butts.

"ZEN From Federation Pursuit Flotilla Thirteen, to Kommissar, planet Horizon. Message reads, "Coming to your immediate aid. Regret cannot relay your message to Federation Central Control. They are out of range. Planetfall, two hours from now."
AVON How many pursuit ships in Flotilla Thirteen?
ZEN Three pursuit ships. [Avon laughs]"

They were 2 hours away. If he left at this time he could have sodded off happily and be too far for them to find by the time they get there.
But he didn't
When it came down to leaving his friends in danger and running or going down to get them, he chose his friends over his freedom. And he did that all the time.

Blake died for being an idiot who couldn't get the words out of his stupid mouth to explain himself.



@mod staff:
This discussion went a bit away from the Gan thread. Would it help if we made a new thread about the whole "Avon doesn't want blake back" thing?
Edited by sooper mouse on 22 November 2016 16:20:35
I have concluded that Jenna is Blake-aware, Blake is Avon-aware, Avon is self-aware and Gan is rarely aware. Vila is merely wary. Cally is frequently more away than aware.
 
Grade Four Ignorant
Gan would have lost faith in Blake in Star One. He voiced his disagreement with Blake working with the Terra Nostra in Shadow and would have been utterly opposed to Blake's willingness to let millions of innocent people die for Blake's principles.

As an honest character, Gan would feel out of place in the third and fourth season crew. By that point they more of a mercenary team, fighting for survival and uninterested in toppling the Federation. He'd either have left Liberator or Scorpio to either settle on a planet or go looking for Blake himself.
 
sooper mouse
Grade Four Ignorant wrote:

Gan would have lost faith in Blake in Star One. He voiced his disagreement with Blake working with the Terra Nostra in Shadow and would have been utterly opposed to Blake's willingness to let millions of innocent people die for Blake's principles.

As an honest character, Gan would feel out of place in the third and fourth season crew. By that point they more of a mercenary team, fighting for survival and uninterested in toppling the Federation. He'd either have left Liberator or Scorpio to either settle on a planet or go looking for Blake himself.


Wouldn't he have lost it even if he did survive Pressure Point?
I have concluded that Jenna is Blake-aware, Blake is Avon-aware, Avon is self-aware and Gan is rarely aware. Vila is merely wary. Cally is frequently more away than aware.
 
JustBrad
sooper mouse wrote:





@mod staff:
This discussion went a bit away from the Gan thread. Would it help if we made a new thread about the whole "Avon doesn't want blake back" thing?


Thanks for the heads up, but as it is now back on topic, onward and upward.
Edited by BradPaula on 06 January 2017 04:55:36
 
JustBrad
Grade Four Ignorant wrote:

Gan would have lost faith in Blake in Star One. .


Agreed, though whether it would have led to Gan leaving is another matter. I think Cally and even Jenna were becoming disillusioned with Blake by that point.
 
mrsbookmark
JustBrad wrote:

Grade Four Ignorant wrote:

Gan would have lost faith in Blake in Star One. .


Agreed, though whether it would have led to Gan leaving is another matter. I think Cally and even Jenna were becoming disillusioned with Blake by that point.



My first reaction would be that Gan would be disillusioned, but...
From my observations, people who believe in leaders to the level of having faith in them, are just as likely to stay as leave; even when the leader's actions are questionable. They justify rather than face the truth. (ex. half the leader's of the developing world) In this case, you could even have a alternate world darker Gan that becomes Blake's bruiser and enforcer.

This depends on how much Gan believed in Blake- and the character was altered/undefined in episodes so it's hard to say. The initial Gan in early Season 1 was more of a tough guy, who may have left Blake or challenged him. The later Gan was made more of a simpleton giant stereotype-and there was one point where he felt like he could not survive on his own. He may believe that and stay with doubts or he may just explain Blake's actions away.
 
sooper mouse
mrsbookmark wrote:

JustBrad wrote:

Grade Four Ignorant wrote:

Gan would have lost faith in Blake in Star One. .


Agreed, though whether it would have led to Gan leaving is another matter. I think Cally and even Jenna were becoming disillusioned with Blake by that point.



My first reaction would be that Gan would be disillusioned, but...
From my observations, people who believe in leaders to the level of having faith in them, are just as likely to stay as leave; even when the leader's actions are questionable. They justify rather than face the truth. (ex. half the leader's of the developing world) In this case, you could even have a alternate world darker Gan that becomes Blake's bruiser and enforcer.

This depends on how much Gan believed in Blake- and the character was altered/undefined in episodes so it's hard to say. The initial Gan in early Season 1 was more of a tough guy, who may have left Blake or challenged him. The later Gan was made more of a simpleton giant stereotype-and there was one point where he felt like he could not survive on his own. He may believe that and stay with doubts or he may just explain Blake's actions away.


Gan is not a fanatic, like Cally and Blake.
If we accept that Pressure Point would have ended the same, only Gan didn't die but everything else would've been the same, the crew would still have to call Blake to account for breaking their promise and endangering them when he pressed on after the Veron incident.
Gan would have probably been one of those who'd do that. However he does't have the strength in goading Blake that Avon has, so Blake would've probably not gone down to sulk on Zil's planet, and therefore wouldn't have felt the need to attack Servalan's HQ afterwards.
Which means that Travis' trial would have gone on as planned and he'd have been convicted.
Which means he wouldn't have been on Freedom City to protect Docholli.
Which means he wouldn't have gone to Goth
Which means he wouldn't have helped the Andromedans.

This also means that Blake would have gathered enough ill will from his crew that they may not have agreed to go to Star 1 even if they did manage to get to Docholli on Freedom City and then to Goth.

Once at Star One they'd have found a station woring as intended and bowing it up would have meant killing a lot of decent scientists, and I don't think the crew would have followed Blake and Cally into that.
I have concluded that Jenna is Blake-aware, Blake is Avon-aware, Avon is self-aware and Gan is rarely aware. Vila is merely wary. Cally is frequently more away than aware.
 
Anniew
Gan can't live.... if he lives then the ominous foreshadowing of the last episode is lost.

Some of the cast argued there was no story arc in Blakes 7 but for me it goes from..." he can't win", via Gan's death; via sarcophagus, Death Watch, Terminal; via Rescue, Orbit and
Blake.
Just because I can't sing doesn't mean I won't.
 
JustBrad
Anniew wrote:

Gan can't live.... if he lives then the ominous foreshadowing of the last episode is lost.

Some of the cast argued there was no story arc in Blakes 7 but for me it goes from..." he can't win", via Gan's death; via sarcophagus, Death Watch, Terminal; via Rescue, Orbit and
Blake.


Might as well throw in Rumors of Death. Not Blake, I know, but it keeps with the theme.

Some of the cast argued there was no story arc in Blakes 7


But in 1978, no other show had a story arc either. It has been argued by none other than B5 creator Joe Strackzynski that B7 was one of the first shows to explore the idea of a long story arc on television.
 
Anniew
Yes good point Brad about Rumours.
Just because I can't sing doesn't mean I won't.
 
sooper mouse
JustBrad wrote:

Anniew wrote:

Gan can't live.... if he lives then the ominous foreshadowing of the last episode is lost.

Some of the cast argued there was no story arc in Blakes 7 but for me it goes from..." he can't win", via Gan's death; via sarcophagus, Death Watch, Terminal; via Rescue, Orbit and
Blake.


Might as well throw in Rumors of Death. Not Blake, I know, but it keeps with the theme.

Some of the cast argued there was no story arc in Blakes 7


But in 1978, no other show had a story arc either. It has been argued by none other than B5 creator Joe Strackzynski that B7 was one of the first shows to explore the idea of a long story arc on television.
#

i tohught they managed it pretty well, a balance between a season story warm and semi independent episodes
I have concluded that Jenna is Blake-aware, Blake is Avon-aware, Avon is self-aware and Gan is rarely aware. Vila is merely wary. Cally is frequently more away than aware.
 
Jump to Forum:
Orac rendered this page in 1.34 seconds
9,788,109 unique visits since 8th January 2014