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the B7 logo is the Federation logo!!
GoldChannel
okay, I know i'm not exactly the fastest cookie in the west but although I have noticed before (as has doubtless been noticed many many times by viewers more attentive than I) that the B7 logo for series 1-3 incorporates the Terran Federation logo, the significance of that has only just sunk in.

(I said I was slow!)

Blake may hate the federation but in many ways it's as if he is actually defined by it, or by his opposition to it. Was this intentional? Is the fantastic irony of Blake's fanaticism something reflected in the programme even at the level of graphic design, or is it a happy 'accident' ?
 
trevor travis
It was intentional. Terry Nation had input into the opening sequence. His original idea is in the first draft script of the opening episode (a computer spewing out the images of the crew), while I think the eventual sequence came about after discussion with David Maloney and the graphic designers.
 
GoldChannel
That's brilliant!

I was fretting this was a case of 'fan reads too much into something '.... knowing this isn't the case just makes me respect the production team all the more
 
JustBrad
trevor travis wrote:

His original idea is in the first draft script of the opening episode (a computer spewing out the images of the crew),...


With the word 'ELIMINATE' stamped across each face.
 
Travisina
And of course the Federation logo is the Star Trek one turned 90 degrees to the right. A right-wing dystopian version of the utopia that was the Trek universe?
Twitter: @TravisinaB7
Tumblr: tumblr
There's no point being grown up if you can't be childish sometimes
 
JustBrad
Travisina wrote:

And of course the Federation logo is the Star Trek one turned 90 degrees to the right. A right-wing dystopian version of the utopia that was the Trek universe?


I always thought it was TN's vision of what would happen when reality caught up with the Utopian dream of ST.
 
trevor travis
I think Iíve said it before, but I donít like lazy analogies between Star Trek and B7, as if Terry Nation somehow stole the idea of B7 from Gene Roddenbury. As pointed out previously, TN didnít steal the idea of the teleport/transporter, because there are Travel Dials in Nationís Doctor Who story, The Keys Of Marinus (1964), which pre-dated Star Trek. As for the Terran Federation in B7, surely they were based on the Daleks, again Terry Nationís own creation which pre-dates Star Trek. As someone who had lived through the war, the image of Nazis and fascists are large in all of Terryís work, whether itís the Daleks, the likes of Arthur Wormley in Survivors, or the Terran Federation.

As one of the key writers of early Doctor Who, Terry Nation was totally within his rights to take some of his own ideas from that show and re-shape them into Survivors (1975) and B7 (1978).

And he didnít steal from Star Trek. Believe-it-or-not but Star Trek was not the beginning of TV Science Fiction, and everything doesnít stem from there. There were other things already around, you know Wink For example, Doctor Who is far more of an influential series to B7 than Star Trek ever was.
 
Spaceship Dispatcher
Agreed on points TT, but did Terry Nation actually design all the graphics himself too? Surely that would have been the job of the BBC's own effects, graphics and titles designers? The logo is identical to the Star Trek logo but, as Travisina says, at a different angle; that to me seems like a very clever marketing ploy rather than ignorant plagiarism.
Reversing the polarity of the neutron flow. I bet that means something. It sounds great.

Blake's 7: Trojan Horse (s4 fanfic) - Blake's 7: Through the Needle's Eye (s2 fanfic)

Spaceship Dispatcher's fanfic site
 
trevor travis
Spaceship Dispatcher wrote:

Agreed on points TT, but did Terry Nation actually design all the graphics himself too? Surely that would have been the job of the BBC's own effects, graphics and titles designers?


SD, good question. However, there is a chance that Terry Nation would have been consulted. It certainly seems that David Maloney kept Terry Nation abreast of any major creative decisions (the impression of Maloney is of a very inclusive and popular producer), and they would have been in constant contact with Terry writing all 13 episodes for the first season. Terry Nation was vague in his description of the Daleks in 1963, but the original Way Back script (called Cygnus Alpha! ) is a different beast Ė the aforementioned detailed description of the title sequence for starters. Terry seemed very keen for his vision of B7 to be created, after things had gone a bit astray on Survivors, and he certainly had shown an interest in what the title sequence looked like.
Edited by trevor travis on 19 February 2016 11:31:53
 
trevor travis
Having looked at the Star Fleet insignia and the Federation logo, there is a similarity, but not an exact match, even when rotated through 90 degrees.

But how about this explanation? The Federation logo is an arrow. Terry Nation originally described B7 as "Robin Hood In Space". This was picked up upon by the first season costume designers. How about if it was also picked up upon by Bob Blagden, who designed the original title sequence?
 
Spaceship Dispatcher
trevor travis wrote:

But how about this explanation? The Federation logo is an arrow. Terry Nation originally described B7 as "Robin Hood In Space". This was picked up upon by the first season costume designers. How about if it was also picked up upon by Bob Blagden, who designed the original title sequence?

Ah, it was Bob Blagden who copied Star Trek... Wink

To me the notion that they took inspiration on some level from ST is a good thing, not bad. What is already out there? What are viewers already watching, and what ideas have been seeded in their minds by other shows that a new series can tap into in a different way and maybe even improve upon? And how can those ideas be tagged visually or in the dialogue without infringing copyright? These are questions that all series creators consider when assembling a new format, and I'm sure that Terry Nation and David Maloney were both experienced and professional enough to consider them too. It's not necessarily plagiarism, just a normal part of the creative process in the television business. As you say, many of the concepts in Blake's 7 that are often attributed as Trek inspired were actually in Doctor Who as well; in some instances from TN's own stories and sometimes, as with the travel dials on Marinus that are virtually the same as teleport bracelets in every way, predate Star Trek anyway. But it's still probable that other shows in the genre including Trek were discussed when Blake's 7 was planned out.
Reversing the polarity of the neutron flow. I bet that means something. It sounds great.

Blake's 7: Trojan Horse (s4 fanfic) - Blake's 7: Through the Needle's Eye (s2 fanfic)

Spaceship Dispatcher's fanfic site
 
trevor travis
Spaceship Dispatcher wrote:

Ah, it was Bob Blagden who copied Star Trek... Wink


Grin Grin

Oh no it wasn't Angry Oops

Spaceship Dispatcher wrote:
To me the notion that they took inspiration on some level from ST is a good thing, not bad. What is already out there? What are viewers already watching, and what ideas have been seeded in their minds by other shows that a new series can tap into in a different way and maybe even improve upon? And how can those ideas be tagged visually or in the dialogue without infringing copyright? These are questions that all series creators consider when assembling a new format, and I'm sure that Terry Nation and David Maloney were both experienced and professional enough to consider them too. It's not necessarily plagiarism, just a normal part of the creative process in the television business. As you say, many of the concepts in Blake's 7 that are often attributed as Trek inspired were actually in Doctor Who as well; in some instances from TN's own stories and sometimes, as with the travel dials on Marinus that are virtually the same as teleport bracelets in every way, predate Star Trek anyway. But it's still probable that other shows in the genre including Trek were discussed when Blake's 7 was planned out.


I guess the odd reference to another show isn't necessarily a bad thing, even such a thoroughly poor and shoddy piece of television such as original Trek Wink

Actually my favourite Trek reference is dialogue within Death-Watch. "Space, the final frontier, as it was once called..." The inference being that Star Trek is FICTION within the B7 universe Wink
 
Spaceship Dispatcher
trevor travis wrote:

I guess the odd reference to another show isn't necessarily a bad thing, even such a thoroughly poor and shoddy piece of television such as original Trek Wink

There's some here that will see that as fighting talk! Not me though. I have tried to rewatch Star Trek:TOS twice and gave up both times!

Actually my favourite Trek reference is dialogue within Death-Watch. "Space, the final frontier, as it was once called..." The inference being that Star Trek is FICTION within the B7 universe Wink

Yes, I like that line too Grin
Reversing the polarity of the neutron flow. I bet that means something. It sounds great.

Blake's 7: Trojan Horse (s4 fanfic) - Blake's 7: Through the Needle's Eye (s2 fanfic)

Spaceship Dispatcher's fanfic site
 
trevor travis
Spaceship Dispatcher wrote:

trevor travis wrote:

I guess the odd reference to another show isn't necessarily a bad thing, even such a thoroughly poor and shoddy piece of television such as original Trek Wink

There's some here that will see that as fighting talk! Not me though. I have tried to rewatch Star Trek:TOS twice and gave up both times!


I made a real effort when it was repeated on BBC2 in the mid-nineties, but it was a real slog and I think I gave up towards the end of the first season. Supposedly itís the strongest season, so heaven knows how bad the other two are! Grin

The writing on original Trek is amazingly bad. Doctor Who may have put together on a budget of two pounds and five shillings per episode, but at least the writers knew what they were doing. Early DW is imaginative and fun, while Star Trek seems to be put together by writers who werenít good enough to write poor B-movies Wink
 
GoldChannel
^

i do like that idea of the arrow being a 'Robin Hood'-type arrow
 
JustBrad
TT & SD

Nevertheless, I suspect Star Trek may have been a sort of inspiration for TN, along the lines of: I will do something as much 'not like Star Trek' as it is possible to do.
 
Spaceresearcher
Just love reading the passion. Keep it up fellow fans.
 
Lurena
Have you considered to look at the famous German production of 1965 (aired that year, but designed some years earlier)?
Raumpatrouille Ė Die phantastischen Abenteuer des Raumschiffes Orion
Some believe even Star Trek got its idea from this (black and white) series.
The arrow-shape was a very beloved item.
In this series the arrow was the symbol of the enemy, alien fleet. Even their space ships were designed an arrow!
i903.photobucket.com/albums/ac236/neoantares/HF/frogs%20attack%20-raumpatrouille%20Orion.jpg
i903.photobucket.com/albums/ac236/neoantares/HF/frogs-raumpatrouille%20Orion.jpg
I watched it in 1966 and I found it pretty creepy!
Lara&Sue's Blake's 7 stories
*No, I am not. I am not expendable, I'm not stupid, and I'm not going.*
 
http://lectorisalutem.webs.com/
trevor travis
JustBrad wrote:

TT & SD

Nevertheless, I suspect Star Trek may have been a sort of inspiration for TN, along the lines of: I will do something as much 'not like Star Trek' as it is possible to do.


Yes maybe Grin

"Terry, is this new series going to be like Star Trek?"
"Hell &%*$£$ no!!"

In any case, the dystopia of B7 is Terry in a good mood. Survivors is actually more depressing Shock Wink
 
JustBrad
trevor travis wrote:



"Terry, is this new series going to be like Star Trek?"


You could say that... Have you seen Mirror Mirror?
 
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