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Who is your Favourite Guest Rebel?

Avalon - (Project Avalon)
Avalon - (Project Avalon)
18% [17 Votes]

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Selma - (Horizon)
5% [5 Votes]

Tyce - (Bounty)
Tyce - (Bounty)
15% [14 Votes]

Norm One - (Redemption)
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19% [18 Votes]

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14% [13 Votes]

Hunda - (Traitor)
Hunda - (Traitor)
5% [5 Votes]

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Deva - (Blake)
9% [9 Votes]

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Started: 09 July 2016

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Vila: a darker character?
trevor travis
sooper mouse wrote:

trevor travis wrote:

sooper mouse wrote:
you put a lot of weight on your own assumptions.


Not my assumptions - it's the others who make the assumption that Avon would be willing to fix the log, so that they can be dumped in space.

Within an episode, Blake has Avon worked out. When Avon pulls a gun on Blake in Cygnus Alpha, Blake knows he's not going to use it. He already has worked out that Avon's bark is worse than his bite.

Yeah, that's why Avon ends up killing him.
Constantly repeating the same hollow argument is dishonest debate, and I have better things to do with my time.


Avon kills Blake because he finally snaps - due to the stress he's been under. It's a tragic response, but a very human one.

Avon and Blake are both to blame. Blake for the silly games he's playing. There was no need to 'test' Avon and crew.
 
trevor travis
President Solvite wrote:

I think its safe to show anything goes with Vila...

'pick a pleasure' etc... and as for items to consume he wouldn't be above a 'sherbet dib-dab' either.

Vila would be the ultimate party animal... Not above a pub crawl, kebab outing and a hair of a dog and a bacon/fried egg butty the morning after.

Like I said earlier or elsewhere... What is there not to like, he would be a great addition to any 'stag-night' do... He probably also would hack a cash point when funds run low! I know Avon could do that also, but he would just mope around at the back complaining he couldn't get decent bandwidth on his mobile/wifi connection. Grin


Yes, I'd definitely invite Vila to a party ahead of Avon. Avon is definitely NOT the party animal! Grin
 
Travisina
trevor travis wrote:

President Solvite wrote:

I think its safe to show anything goes with Vila...

'pick a pleasure' etc... and as for items to consume he wouldn't be above a 'sherbet dib-dab' either.

Vila would be the ultimate party animal... Not above a pub crawl, kebab outing and a hair of a dog and a bacon/fried egg butty the morning after.

Like I said earlier or elsewhere... What is there not to like, he would be a great addition to any 'stag-night' do... He probably also would hack a cash point when funds run low! I know Avon could do that also, but he would just mope around at the back complaining he couldn't get decent bandwidth on his mobile/wifi connection. Grin


Yes, I'd definitely invite Vila to a party ahead of Avon. Avon is definitely NOT the party animal! Grin

I think Avon would be the first to admit that! How about Og....?
Twitter: @TravisinaB7
Tumblr: tumblr
There's no point being grown up if you can't be childish sometimes
 
sooper mouse
trevor travis wrote:

President Solvite wrote:

I think its safe to show anything goes with Vila...

'pick a pleasure' etc... and as for items to consume he wouldn't be above a 'sherbet dib-dab' either.

Vila would be the ultimate party animal... Not above a pub crawl, kebab outing and a hair of a dog and a bacon/fried egg butty the morning after.

Like I said earlier or elsewhere... What is there not to like, he would be a great addition to any 'stag-night' do... He probably also would hack a cash point when funds run low! I know Avon could do that also, but he would just mope around at the back complaining he couldn't get decent bandwidth on his mobile/wifi connection. Grin


Yes, I'd definitely invite Vila to a party ahead of Avon. Avon is definitely NOT the party animal! Grin

He wouldn't come anyway.
I have concluded that Jenna is Blake-aware, Blake is Avon-aware, Avon is self-aware and Gan is rarely aware. Vila is merely wary. Cally is frequently more away than aware.
 
trevor travis
Travisina wrote:
I think Avon would be the first to admit that! How about Og....?


Og, under Vila's influence, would definitely be a party animal. Somebody should write a fanfic about that. Wait a minute, I did a month ago Grin Grin
 
sooper mouse
trevor travis wrote:

Travisina wrote:
I think Avon would be the first to admit that! How about Og....?


Og, under Vila's influence, would definitely be a party animal. Somebody should write a fanfic about that. Wait a minute, I did a month ago Grin Grin


you go to your party and pub crawl and I'll take the night slaving over scripts with Avon. That way everybody's happy.
I have concluded that Jenna is Blake-aware, Blake is Avon-aware, Avon is self-aware and Gan is rarely aware. Vila is merely wary. Cally is frequently more away than aware.
 
trevor travis
sooper mouse wrote:you go to your party and pub crawl and I'll take the night slaving over scripts with Avon. That way everybody's happy.


Vila and Og may be party animals, but I'm not. I go out drinking around 3 or 4 times a year - Cygnus Alpha 2 was one of those; the British Speedway GP at Cardiff was another. Happier at home with a good book most of the time Wink
 
sooper mouse
trevor travis wrote:

sooper mouse wrote:you go to your party and pub crawl and I'll take the night slaving over scripts with Avon. That way everybody's happy.


Vila and Og may be party animals, but I'm not. I go out drinking around 3 or 4 times a year - Cygnus Alpha 2 was one of those; the British Speedway GP at Cardiff was another. Happier at home with a good book most of the time Wink


I'm happier working overnight on a new piece of software but that is just me.
While having Blake's 7 run on the second monitor lol.
Edited by sooper mouse on 19 November 2016 11:32:43
I have concluded that Jenna is Blake-aware, Blake is Avon-aware, Avon is self-aware and Gan is rarely aware. Vila is merely wary. Cally is frequently more away than aware.
 
Travisina
sooper mouse wrote:

trevor travis wrote:

sooper mouse wrote:you go to your party and pub crawl and I'll take the night slaving over scripts with Avon. That way everybody's happy.


Vila and Og may be party animals, but I'm not. I go out drinking around 3 or 4 times a year - Cygnus Alpha 2 was one of those; the British Speedway GP at Cardiff was another. Happier at home with a good book most of the time Wink


I'm happier working overnight on a new piece of software but that is just me.
While having Blake's 7 run on the second monitor lol.

Sounds good to me Smile
Twitter: @TravisinaB7
Tumblr: tumblr
There's no point being grown up if you can't be childish sometimes
 
sooper mouse
Travisina wrote:

sooper mouse wrote:

trevor travis wrote:

sooper mouse wrote:you go to your party and pub crawl and I'll take the night slaving over scripts with Avon. That way everybody's happy.


Vila and Og may be party animals, but I'm not. I go out drinking around 3 or 4 times a year - Cygnus Alpha 2 was one of those; the British Speedway GP at Cardiff was another. Happier at home with a good book most of the time Wink


I'm happier working overnight on a new piece of software but that is just me.
While having Blake's 7 run on the second monitor lol.

Sounds good to me Smile


Paul darrow does have a good snarling voice to work to.
I have concluded that Jenna is Blake-aware, Blake is Avon-aware, Avon is self-aware and Gan is rarely aware. Vila is merely wary. Cally is frequently more away than aware.
 
trevor travis
sooper mouse wrote:

trevor travis wrote:

sooper mouse wrote:you go to your party and pub crawl and I'll take the night slaving over scripts with Avon. That way everybody's happy.


Vila and Og may be party animals, but I'm not. I go out drinking around 3 or 4 times a year - Cygnus Alpha 2 was one of those; the British Speedway GP at Cardiff was another. Happier at home with a good book most of the time Wink


I'm happier working overnight on a new piece of software but that is just me.
While having Blake's 7 run on the second monitor lol.


Sounds good!

Sorry Sooper Mouse, we've been too busy having a good old-fashioned discussion that I didn't welcome you aboard. Hope you enjoy it on here!
 
Anniew
I can't see Vila as an I nnocent. He's a recidivist criminal, ( a thief isn't who I am, it's what I am) sent at the age of 14 to a penal colony and chosen to mastermind the escape plan which suggests he's clever and tough, all attempts to condition him not to steal have failed, he approves of Space City because of the 'entertainment' and it's his life's ambition to go there despite his experience of the effects of the Terra Nostra who run it on his fellow deltas, first action is to steal Blake's watch. He's charming and quite lovable and funny but he doesn't show much loyalty to his crew mates - asleep when they need emergency teleporting and it's his duty to man the station, disappearing to Space City and getting drunk thus risking being caught, telling Travis how to teleport onto the Liberator when threatened, refusing to go on away missions. I suppose however, if you consider him to be a kleptomaniac then morality doesn't come into his stealing and he is less keen on physical violence than the others and only kills twice- though Gan has surely been rendered innocent by the insertion of the limiter and seems anyway to have a natural morality ( he is spot on about using the Terra Nostra and is willing to sacrifice himself for his crew mates) which would suggest he is the most innocent character.
Just because I can't sing doesn't mean I won't.
 
trevor travis
Anniew wrote:

I can't see Vila as an I nnocent. He's a recidivist criminal, ( a thief isn't who I am, it's what I am) sent at the age of 14 to a penal colony and chosen to mastermind the escape plan which suggests he's clever and tough, all attempts to condition him not to steal have failed, he approves of Space City because of the 'entertainment' and it's his life's ambition to go there despite his experience of the effects of the Terra Nostra who run it on his fellow deltas, first action is to steal Blake's watch. He's charming and quite lovable and funny but he doesn't show much loyalty to his crew mates - asleep when they need emergency teleporting and it's his duty to man the station, disappearing to Space City and getting drunk thus risking being caught, telling Travis how to teleport onto the Liberator when threatened, refusing to go on away missions. I suppose however, if you consider him to be a kleptomaniac then morality doesn't come into his stealing and he is less keen on physical violence than the others and only kills twice- though Gan has surely been rendered innocent by the insertion of the limiter and seems anyway to have a natural morality ( he is spot on about using the Terra Nostra and is willing to sacrifice himself for his crew mates) which would suggest he is the most innocent character.


Anniew, agreed.

Vila's been through quite a journey to make it through to "The Way Back" in one piece. He's street smart. His survival instincts are very keen - as keen as those as Avon. He just shows it in a slightly different manner.

And yes, he is negligent on teleport duty and almost causes the death of one of his crew mates on a few occasions.

I like Vila, because he is easy to relate to, and charming and funny. But 'innocent' is not the word I would use.

I also agree that Gan is the most innocent. The limiter only activates when Gan tries to kill someone, so the Gan we see most of the time is the real Gan. And yes his final act is one of self-sacrifice. Can you imagine Avon or Vila doing that, because I can't!
 
sooper mouse
trevor travis wrote:

Anniew wrote:

I can't see Vila as an I nnocent. He's a recidivist criminal, ( a thief isn't who I am, it's what I am) sent at the age of 14 to a penal colony and chosen to mastermind the escape plan which suggests he's clever and tough, all attempts to condition him not to steal have failed, he approves of Space City because of the 'entertainment' and it's his life's ambition to go there despite his experience of the effects of the Terra Nostra who run it on his fellow deltas, first action is to steal Blake's watch. He's charming and quite lovable and funny but he doesn't show much loyalty to his crew mates - asleep when they need emergency teleporting and it's his duty to man the station, disappearing to Space City and getting drunk thus risking being caught, telling Travis how to teleport onto the Liberator when threatened, refusing to go on away missions. I suppose however, if you consider him to be a kleptomaniac then morality doesn't come into his stealing and he is less keen on physical violence than the others and only kills twice- though Gan has surely been rendered innocent by the insertion of the limiter and seems anyway to have a natural morality ( he is spot on about using the Terra Nostra and is willing to sacrifice himself for his crew mates) which would suggest he is the most innocent character.


Anniew, agreed.

Vila's been through quite a journey to make it through to "The Way Back" in one piece. He's street smart. His survival instincts are very keen - as keen as those as Avon. He just shows it in a slightly different manner.

And yes, he is negligent on teleport duty and almost causes the death of one of his crew mates on a few occasions.

I like Vila, because he is easy to relate to, and charming and funny. But 'innocent' is not the word I would use.

I also agree that Gan is the most innocent. The limiter only activates when Gan tries to kill someone, so the Gan we see most of the time is the real Gan. And yes his final act is one of self-sacrifice. Can you imagine Avon or Vila doing that, because I can't!


By the same line we can argue that Vila, as a product of his environment, never had a chance to be anything else. Which means his choices are not entirely his. That's where the "most innocent of the group" comes.
Someone who has morals and ethics and choosing to do the questionable things is a lot more guilty than someone who really doesn't know any better.

I don't actually like Vila because i find him vastly useless, but he is so well played that Michael Keating manages to make a character that in my opinion is far too overused for his relevance, rather enjoyable.

Also needs mentioning that Gan does have an enjoyment for physical violence.

Self sacrifice is not a good survival trait. Neither is it a virtue.
I have concluded that Jenna is Blake-aware, Blake is Avon-aware, Avon is self-aware and Gan is rarely aware. Vila is merely wary. Cally is frequently more away than aware.
 
trevor travis
sooper mouse wrote:
By the same line we can argue that Vila, as a product of his environment, never had a chance to be anything else. Which means his choices are not entirely his. That's where the "most innocent of the group" comes.
Someone who has morals and ethics and choosing to do the questionable things is a lot more guilty than someone who really doesn't know any better.

I don't actually like Vila because i find him vastly useless, but he is so well played that Michael Keating manages to make a character that in my opinion is far too overused for his relevance, rather enjoyable.

Also needs mentioning that Gan does have an enjoyment for physical violence.

Self sacrifice is not a good survival trait. Neither is it a virtue.


I agree that self-sacrifice isn't the best of things to do - for starters, you can only do it once. Grin

But we are talking about 'innocence' rather than good traits. And there's something very innocent about sacrificing yourself.

I'm not sure that Vila doesn't know any better. He's much more intelligent than he prefers to let on. For example, there's the wonderful scene where he dupes both Avon and Tarrant into thinking he's drunk in Stardrive.

Vila isn't useless at all - he's very useful as Avon admits (not to Vila's face, of course!) in City. But Vila is lazy and also shows a lack of care towards his crew-mates at times.
 
Anniew
Self sacrifice is not a good survival trait. Neither is it a virtue.
. True but that's the point. We're talking about innocence which is also not a good survival trait or a virtue either! People do not choose to be innocent. They just are. And they don't choose to be self sacrificing. As Avon says it's " an automatic reaction". And as to Gan's
enjoyment
of violence - that is at least debatable because we're are told his limiter is sending scrambled messages to his brain when he becomes violent.
Just because I can't sing doesn't mean I won't.
 
sooper mouse
Anniew wrote:

Self sacrifice is not a good survival trait. Neither is it a virtue.
. True but that's the point. We're talking about innocence which is also not a good survival trait or a virtue either! People do not choose to be innocent. They just are. And they don't choose to be self sacrificing. As Avon says it's " an automatic reaction". And as to Gan's
enjoyment
of violence - that is at least debatable because we're are told his limiter is sending scrambled messages to his brain when he becomes violent.
the limiter doesn't do that when he threatens the guard in Space fall or in the many instances where he enjoyed punching people out, and said so.
I have concluded that Jenna is Blake-aware, Blake is Avon-aware, Avon is self-aware and Gan is rarely aware. Vila is merely wary. Cally is frequently more away than aware.
 
JustBrad
sooper mouse wrote:

Anniew wrote:

Self sacrifice is not a good survival trait. Neither is it a virtue.
. True but that's the point. We're talking about innocence which is also not a good survival trait or a virtue either! People do not choose to be innocent. They just are. And they don't choose to be self sacrificing. As Avon says it's " an automatic reaction". And as to Gan's
enjoyment
of violence - that is at least debatable because we're are told his limiter is sending scrambled messages to his brain when he becomes violent.
the limiter doesn't do that when he threatens the guard in Space fall or in the many instances where he enjoyed punching people out, and said so.


The limiter is only supposed to keep him from killing, as in The Web. he can bluff, he can fight to a point, but he cannot exercise lethal action or entertain lethal intent. The limiter is rather, er, limited in that regard.
 
sooper mouse
JustBrad wrote:

sooper mouse wrote:

Anniew wrote:

Self sacrifice is not a good survival trait. Neither is it a virtue.
. True but that's the point. We're talking about innocence which is also not a good survival trait or a virtue either! People do not choose to be innocent. They just are. And they don't choose to be self sacrificing. As Avon says it's " an automatic reaction". And as to Gan's
enjoyment
of violence - that is at least debatable because we're are told his limiter is sending scrambled messages to his brain when he becomes violent.
the limiter doesn't do that when he threatens the guard in Space fall or in the many instances where he enjoyed punching people out, and said so.


The limiter is only supposed to keep him from killing, as in The Web. he can bluff, he can fight to a point, but he cannot exercise lethal action or entertain lethal intent. The limiter is rather, er, limited in that regard.

yup
I have concluded that Jenna is Blake-aware, Blake is Avon-aware, Avon is self-aware and Gan is rarely aware. Vila is merely wary. Cally is frequently more away than aware.
 
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