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Current Poll

Who is your Favourite Guest Rebel?

Avalon - (Project Avalon)
Avalon - (Project Avalon)
18% [17 Votes]

Selma - (Horizon)
Selma - (Horizon)
5% [5 Votes]

Tyce - (Bounty)
Tyce - (Bounty)
15% [14 Votes]

Norm One - (Redemption)
Norm One - (Redemption)
2% [2 Votes]

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Bek - (Shadow)
6% [6 Votes]

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Kasabi - (Pressure Point)
19% [18 Votes]

Hal Mellanby - (Aftermath)
Hal Mellanby - (Aftermath)
14% [13 Votes]

Hunda - (Traitor)
Hunda - (Traitor)
5% [5 Votes]

Deva - (Blake)
Deva - (Blake)
9% [9 Votes]

Other
Other
6% [6 Votes]

Votes: 95
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Started: 09 July 2016

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Describe Blake's 7
JustBrad
President Solvite wrote:

A healthy antidote to Star Trek.



Star Trek: All men are mighty and infallible, all women are beautiful and wise, and all problems are solvable.
Blakes 7: Not so much.
 
scorpiogirl
how to describe??? in a nutshell -
low budget compensated for by fantastic characters and storylines,best villains -servie and travis , some very funky 70's outfits and the coolest spaceship in the galaxy....and people STILL give me strange looks........
aaarrgggg!!!
i am happy to desribe to people, but i will never justify...i tell people to check it out for themselves and form their own opinion....
then i'll tell them they're wrong..
SmileGrin
 
Ellen York
Today at work, the site director caught a co-worker and me geeking out about B7 and wanted to know what we were talking about. Of course, the title of the show got a blank look. My explanation, 70's era British sic-fi with eccentric costumes and dodgy special effects, but fabulous characters. She wasn't impressed, but I don't want to share my fandom with the boss anyway.
I liked the quote that someone was using as their signature line at the old site. The one about "a group of misfits with startling fashion sense traveling the galaxy in an advanced spaceship and trying not to get killed by a chick who thinks dressing for the office involves and off the shoulder ball gown".
 
peladon
Spaceship Dispatcher wrote:

Henry Eggleton wrote:

A show where those normally considered villains are the good guys and everybody dies

Very true! Its quite a unique show because, although it follows those who would normally be the villains since most SF follows the authorities, it still portrays the main characters as sympathy figures with mostly good personality traits; rather than as 'hard men' that viewers admire for their callousness and violence in their rebellion. We have to analyse them to realise that much of what Blake and Avon do is morally outrageous, but on screen we are encouraged to like these characters as normal people in extraordinary circumstances. I'm not sure there are many series that have done that.


I'm curious, which of Blake/Avon's actions were morally outrageous and why?
 
trevor travis
B7 in a sentence:

Albert, Barney, Colin and Derek - splendid chaps, all of them.
 
Henry Eggleton
peladon wrote:

I'm curious, which of Blake/Avon's actions were morally outrageous and why?


Blake : Making a deal with the Terra Nostra unless you feel it morally correct to deal with the galaxy's largest drug dealers
Avon : Killing Dr Plaxton to save the ship whilst logical it is morally ambiguous to say the least.

What I do I do without choice and to save time
 
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peladon
Henry Eggleton wrote:

peladon wrote:

I'm curious, which of Blake/Avon's actions were morally outrageous and why?


Blake : Making a deal with the Terra Nostra unless you feel it morally correct to deal with the galaxy's largest drug dealers
Avon : Killing Dr Plaxton to save the ship whilst logical it is morally ambiguous to say the least.


Terra Nostra - yes, and such an unBlake thing to do. Totally OfC.
Avon - cant agree that letting them all die is less morally ambigous than taking action to save most at the sacrifice of one. What would have been moral in that circumstance?
 
Grade Four Ignorant
peladon wrote:

Avon - cant agree that letting them all die is less morally ambigous than taking action to save most at the sacrifice of one. What would have been moral in that circumstance?


Avon sacrificing Plaxton to save Scorpio is not particularly out of character for Avon. He has a reputation for lying, cheating and killing. What I find more distasteful is his casual reaction of "Who?" when Dayna questions him. In previous seasons, he would have said something like "I had no choice, it was either her or us!" to justify his actions, or at least pointed out how he was acting pragmatically or logically.
Edited by Grade Four Ignorant on 31 January 2014 16:03:07
 
Henry Eggleton
peladon wrote:

Henry Eggleton wrote:

peladon wrote:

I'm curious, which of Blake/Avon's actions were morally outrageous and why?


Blake : Making a deal with the Terra Nostra unless you feel it morally correct to deal with the galaxy's largest drug dealers
Avon : Killing Dr Plaxton to save the ship whilst logical it is morally ambiguous to say the least.


Terra Nostra - yes, and such an unBlake thing to do. Totally OfC.
Avon - cant agree that letting them all die is less morally ambigous than taking action to save most at the sacrifice of one. What would have been moral in that circumstance?


I agree it is logical and rational, but it still boils down to murder, he never asked Plaxton if she were willing to give her life for theirs. And she was an allie
What I do I do without choice and to save time
 
http://dcmarvelrpg48705.yuku.com/directory#.UnfVjR
peladon
Grade Four Ignorant wrote:

peladon wrote:

Avon - cant agree that letting them all die is less morally ambigous than taking action to save most at the sacrifice of one. What would have been moral in that circumstance?


Avon sacrificing Plaxton to save Scorpio is not particularly out of character for Avon. He has a reputation for lying, cheating and killing. What I find more distasteful is his casual reaction of "Who?" when Dayna questions him. In previous seasons, he would have said something like "I had no choice, it was either her or us!" to justify his actions, or at least pointed out how he was acting pragmatically or logically.


LOL, yes he certainly has that reputation amongst some fans, and on screen he does his best to lay claim to it. However its hard to find evidence of him actually doing so.

As for Plaxton, well one thing Avon does consistently is refrain from making excuses or wearing his heart on his sleeve. He has never been ia character who explained himslelf to others, it goes back to his comments about caring in Duel. At this point however unAvon like he is (and he is) he is acting like a commander and so why would he explain himself? They all knew the score anyway. His 'Who' can be read as a warning that he doesnt intend to discuss it and a reminder that it cant be changed.

What would you have had him do at that point if you had been on Scorpio then, or even as a viewer?
 
peladon
Henry Eggleton wrote:

peladon wrote:

Henry Eggleton wrote:

peladon wrote:

I'm curious, which of Blake/Avon's actions were morally outrageous and why?


Blake : Making a deal with the Terra Nostra unless you feel it morally correct to deal with the galaxy's largest drug dealers
Avon : Killing Dr Plaxton to save the ship whilst logical it is morally ambiguous to say the least.


Terra Nostra - yes, and such an unBlake thing to do. Totally OfC.
Avon - cant agree that letting them all die is less morally ambigous than taking action to save most at the sacrifice of one. What would have been moral in that circumstance?


I agree it is logical and rational, but it still boils down to murder, he never asked Plaxton if she were willing to give her life for theirs. And she was an allie


Murder? He doesnt set out or plan to kill her, there is no malice towards her, so how so? Manslaughter at most and even that doesnt allow for the fact that she is, and knows she is, aboard a fighting vessel that may be attacked and destroyed. She presumably accepted the risk in all its forms when she went with them, as she knew who they were. She offers to connect the stardrive and if she hadnt wasted time staring into space she would have been clear before they needed the acceleration.

Would it have been murder if he hadnt acted as he did and they all got killed? What would you have had him do (within the bounds of the story line) to be considered moral?
 
Henry Eggleton
peladon wrote:

Henry Eggleton wrote:

peladon wrote:

Henry Eggleton wrote:

peladon wrote:

I'm curious, which of Blake/Avon's actions were morally outrageous and why?


Blake : Making a deal with the Terra Nostra unless you feel it morally correct to deal with the galaxy's largest drug dealers
Avon : Killing Dr Plaxton to save the ship whilst logical it is morally ambiguous to say the least.


Terra Nostra - yes, and such an unBlake thing to do. Totally OfC.
Avon - cant agree that letting them all die is less morally ambigous than taking action to save most at the sacrifice of one. What would have been moral in that circumstance?


I agree it is logical and rational, but it still boils down to murder, he never asked Plaxton if she were willing to give her life for theirs. And she was an allie


Murder? He doesnt set out or plan to kill her, there is no malice towards her, so how so? Manslaughter at most and even that doesnt allow for the fact that she is, and knows she is, aboard a fighting vessel that may be attacked and destroyed. She presumably accepted the risk in all its forms when she went with them, as she knew who they were. She offers to connect the stardrive and if she hadnt wasted time staring into space she would have been clear before they needed the acceleration.

Would it have been murder if he hadnt acted as he did and they all got killed? What would you have had him do (within the bounds of the story line) to be considered moral?


Avon acted with intent
Manslaughter

The unjustifiable, inexcusable, and intentional killing of a human being without deliberation, premeditation, and malice. The unlawful killing of a human being without any deliberation, which may be involuntary, in the commission of a lawful act without due caution and circumspection.

Manslaughter is a distinct crime and is not considered a lesser degree of murder. The essential distinction between the two offenses is that malice aforethought must be present for murder, whereas it must be absent for manslaughter. Manslaughter is not as serious a crime as murder. On the other hand, it is not a justifiable or excusable killing for which little or no punishment is imposed.

At Common Law, as well as under current statutes, the offense can be either voluntary or Involuntary Manslaughter. The main difference between the two is that voluntary manslaughter requires an intent to kill or cause serious bodily harm while involuntary manslaughter does not. Premeditation or deliberation, however, are elements of murder and not of manslaughter. Some states have abandoned the use of adjectives to describe different forms of the offense and, instead, simply divide the offense into varying degrees.

What I do I do without choice and to save time
 
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peladon
[
Avon acted with intent


Yes he acted with intent, but that intent was to save Scorpio and the crew, it was not his express intent to kill Plaxton. To me there is a clear difference, do you disagree? That she would/might die was incidental to the protective action. If he had not acted as he did the ship would have been destroyed, remember that their only option at this point was to outrun the plasma bolt, so if he had delayed and that had happened would his intent have been the destruction of them all?

So what would you have had him do to count as moral?
 
Henry Eggleton
peladon wrote:

[
Avon acted with intent


Yes he acted with intent, but that intent was to save Scorpio and the crew, it was not his express intent to kill Plaxton. To me there is a clear difference, do you disagree? That she would/might die was incidental to the protective action. If he had not acted as he did the ship would have been destroyed, remember that their only option at this point was to outrun the plasma bolt, so if he had delayed and that had happened would his intent have been the destruction of them all?

So what would you have had him do to count as moral?


You miss my point, what he did was eminently logical and sensible for everyone on the ship save Plaxton. It does not mean it was not morally ambiguous at best.
There was no moral action that would have saved them, save perhaps Plaxton volunteering to die to save the ship.

What I do I do without choice and to save time
 
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peladon
Henry Eggleton wrote:

peladon wrote:

[
Avon acted with intent


Yes he acted with intent, but that intent was to save Scorpio and the crew, it was not his express intent to kill Plaxton. To me there is a clear difference, do you disagree? That she would/might die was incidental to the protective action. If he had not acted as he did the ship would have been destroyed, remember that their only option at this point was to outrun the plasma bolt, so if he had delayed and that had happened would his intent have been the destruction of them all?

So what would you have had him do to count as moral?


You miss my point, what he did was eminently logical and sensible for everyone on the ship save Plaxton. It does not mean it was not morally ambiguous at best.
There was no moral action that would have saved them, save perhaps Plaxton volunteering to die to save the ship.


No, I dont miss your point. I asked you how it was morally ambigous but you havent addressed that question. My analysis : If there is no 'moral' action that was possible without increased loss of life then there can be no ambiguity. It was an awful call to have to make, but to commit suicide and kill the others(when their deaths could be avoided) was not a moral alternative. Therefore to minimise the loss of life was not a morally ambigous act. But I'd like to know how you assess the situation to get a different answer.
 
Henry Eggleton
peladon wrote:

Henry Eggleton wrote:

peladon wrote:

[
Avon acted with intent


Yes he acted with intent, but that intent was to save Scorpio and the crew, it was not his express intent to kill Plaxton. To me there is a clear difference, do you disagree? That she would/might die was incidental to the protective action. If he had not acted as he did the ship would have been destroyed, remember that their only option at this point was to outrun the plasma bolt, so if he had delayed and that had happened would his intent have been the destruction of them all?

So what would you have had him do to count as moral?


You miss my point, what he did was eminently logical and sensible for everyone on the ship save Plaxton. It does not mean it was not morally ambiguous at best.
There was no moral action that would have saved them, save perhaps Plaxton volunteering to die to save the ship.


No, I dont miss your point. I asked you how it was morally ambigous but you havent addressed that question. My analysis : If there is no 'moral' action that was possible without increased loss of life then there can be no ambiguity. It was an awful call to have to make, but to commit suicide and kill the others(when their deaths could be avoided) was not a moral alternative. Therefore to minimize the loss of life was not a morally ambiguous act. But I'd like to know how you assess the situation to get a different answer.


He could have asked her if she was willing to sacrifice herself.
And there are some circumstances in which there is no morally correct solution, that doesn't mean the solution is not morally ambiguous,
I did in my last post state the moral solution was for Plaxton to have volunteered to sacrifice herself.
As to Avons morality, is stealing moral? Freedom City anyone?

What I do I do without choice and to save time
 
http://dcmarvelrpg48705.yuku.com/directory#.UnfVjR
Tyce
Describe B7 - easy I can do that in one word - "Awesome". Next question ;-)
 
Tyce
I once saw an article headline which said "Blake's Seven is ABBA in Space". (I swear I did *NOT* write the article!)
 
trevor travis
Avon is a self-serving character; not a moral one.

But I don't really see the alternative at the end of "Stardrive". He needs to act, and to act quickly to prevent the whole crew from becoming atoms in space. I don't think Dr Plaxton would have sacrificed herself willingly (why would she, she's only just met these people), so giving her the choice wouldn't have worked. Avon did what he had to do. As usual in Season D, the rest of the crew and gutless and just let Avon make all the hard decisions. No wonder he found himself under strain, no matter how self-inflicted after his huge cock-up in Terminal.

Avon acted in the way he had to. I don't have a problem with that. What's far more worrying is his reply to Dayna: a cold "Who?". Once upon a time, Avon would have justified his actions, but not here. A sign that things are starting to eat away at him.
 
Henry Eggleton
trevor travis wrote:

Avon is a self-serving character; not a moral one.

But I don't really see the alternative at the end of "Stardrive". He needs to act, and to act quickly to prevent the whole crew from becoming atoms in space. I don't think Dr Plaxton would have sacrificed herself willingly (why would she, she's only just met these people), so giving her the choice wouldn't have worked. Avon did what he had to do. As usual in Season D, the rest of the crew and gutless and just let Avon make all the hard decisions. No wonder he found himself under strain, no matter how self-inflicted after his huge cock-up in Terminal.

Avon acted in the way he had to. I don't have a problem with that. What's far more worrying is his reply to Dayna: a cold "Who?". Once upon a time, Avon would have justified his actions, but not here. A sign that things are starting to eat away at him.


I agree his was the only rational decision that doesn't make it any less morally unpalatable.
What I do I do without choice and to save time
 
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