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Current Poll

Who is your Favourite Guest Rebel?

Avalon - (Project Avalon)
Avalon - (Project Avalon)
18% [17 Votes]

Selma - (Horizon)
Selma - (Horizon)
5% [5 Votes]

Tyce - (Bounty)
Tyce - (Bounty)
15% [14 Votes]

Norm One - (Redemption)
Norm One - (Redemption)
2% [2 Votes]

Bek - (Shadow)
Bek - (Shadow)
6% [6 Votes]

Kasabi - (Pressure Point)
Kasabi - (Pressure Point)
19% [18 Votes]

Hal Mellanby - (Aftermath)
Hal Mellanby - (Aftermath)
14% [13 Votes]

Hunda - (Traitor)
Hunda - (Traitor)
5% [5 Votes]

Deva - (Blake)
Deva - (Blake)
9% [9 Votes]

Other
Other
6% [6 Votes]

Votes: 95
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Started: 09 July 2016

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Terminal vs Blake
Travisina
peladon wrote:

If I had to guess what non fans most remember it would be the rebel angle, the ship and the bickering between the charactersCool

And Servalan Wink
Twitter: @TravisinaB7
Tumblr: tumblr
There's no point being grown up if you can't be childish sometimes
 
peladon
trevor travis wrote:


Er, no... "Death-Watch" definitely comes after "Moloch" Wink

AVON Do they know that your battle fleet is massed on their borders?
SERVALAN Routine maneuvers. And a small demonstration of concern for my personal safety, which both sides understand and accept.

That's the 'explanation' given by Servalan, but Avon sees right through it, and knows why that battle fleet is there - to move in as soon as Teal/Vandor declare war.

The Federation is expanding again by the end of Colin - it takes more than one single war to defeat a dictatorship that strong. Human history has shown time-and-time again, with Germany and Russia being recent examples of the last century, that a great power will always rise again.

From "Ultraworld" onwards, the Federation is on the up again.




True I reversed their order - doesnt change my mind and they are both very close to the end of Series C..
As for Deathwatch what Servalan expects is to step in when they have fought long enough to give her a chance of overpowering them so the implication is that she couldnt annex them at their current military strength.

As for dictatorships not being destroyed by a single war, well that depends on the war, the enemy and the scale of the destruction. The context of the Federations fall is set at the start of sC, reinforced in Powerplay and Volcano, then again in RoD and Moloch.

Russia is not an example and Germany is not a true parallel.
 
Spaceship Dispatcher
***Mod hat on***

The conversation has not turned very far that way yet, but can we all make sure we keep the discussion off real world politics please; twentieth century fascism is too recent, and communism in Russia is actually current affairs. Many thanks, SD
Reversing the polarity of the neutron flow. I bet that means something. It sounds great.

Blake's 7: Trojan Horse (s4 fanfic) - Blake's 7: Through the Needle's Eye (s2 fanfic)

Spaceship Dispatcher's fanfic site
 
sweevo
As the creator of this topic, I would also like to ask voters/members that while parallels and comparisons and justifications are welcome, I would like this thread to at least try to stay ON topic.
 
trevor travis
Oh, that's end of dicussion, then. It's impossible to discussion the work of Terry Nation, without discussing comparions to the Nazis. It's one of his main tropes.

Oh well, fair enough, if we can't discuss it, then we can't discuss it.

EDIT: Is it OK to contunue the discussion on a new thread in the Duel section?
 
sweevo
Do as you will. I think it's safe to say that "Blake" wins over "Terminal" on every possible angle. Smile Thank you very much for voting and participating.
 
Spaceship Dispatcher
trevor travis wrote:

Oh, that's end of dicussion, then. It's impossible to discussion the work of Terry Nation, without discussing comparions to the Nazis. It's one of his main tropes.

Oh well, fair enough, if we can't discuss it, then we can't discuss it.

EDIT: Is it OK to contunue the discussion on a new thread in the Duel section?

It's perfectly possible to discuss the fictional universe of Blake's 7 at length without describing or debating the real events and politics that inspired the writers; by all means make passing comparisons, it was merely a polite reminder not to take the debate itself into real world issues. This has always been Horizon's angle, as RL political disputes cause divisions that are unnecessary if we all stick to chatting about the things we have in common - ie an interest in the show and its characters. This would apply equally in all forums on the site. Describing why fascism or communism have succeeded or failed in the past, and exploring the things they have said or done in order to say "the Federation may have done the same", is a logical path for the debate but not an ideal direction for this site.
Reversing the polarity of the neutron flow. I bet that means something. It sounds great.

Blake's 7: Trojan Horse (s4 fanfic) - Blake's 7: Through the Needle's Eye (s2 fanfic)

Spaceship Dispatcher's fanfic site
 
trevor travis
SD, OK, I understand now, we can discuss it, as long as weíre discussing it in association to the writer and the series, as opposed to discussing the pro and cons of communism, facism, etc in themselves.


In terms of Terry Nation, he did admit that Daleks = Federation = Nazis.

He clearly was pre-occupied (and admitted as much in an interview) with an all-powerful government, that had total control over its population.

And he does present the Federation as a near unbeatable foe. You always get the idea that Blake is hardly even scratching the surface.

Iím not surprised that the all-powerful force is so hard to destroy. After all, the Intergalactic War was largely a spaceship battle. How about all the troopers installed as ground troops on various planets? Or that Earth itself Ė the heart of the Federation - seems untouched by the war, which took place half a galaxy away near Star One, Sarran, Chenga, Obsidian, Auron, etc?

Yes, the loss of most military spacecraft would have caused short-term damage to the Federation, but not nearly enough to stop it completely.

That was never going to be the case, and as early as Harvest Of Kairos, we hear that the Federation is constructing new spacecraft (the ones that Jarvik sacrifices to gain the Liberator). Harvest Of Kairos, Children Of Auron and Death-Watch all show a Federation that is far from on its knees.

And the resurgence, referred to in Ultraworld and Death-Watch and then shown in Traitor, is no surprise at all.
 
Spaceship Dispatcher
trevor travis wrote:

SD, OK, I understand now, we can discuss it, as long as weíre discussing it in association to the writer and the series, as opposed to discussing the pro and cons of communism, facism, etc in themselves.

Spot on Happy

I'm not sure if the geographical nature of the Federation has been speculated on much before, but I sometimes wonder if it was like the Roman empire in covering a large area or whether it was like the British, French, Dutch etc empires that had outposts and dominant military ports etc that exercised control without being all encompassing? Episodes like Horizon make me think the latter, that the Federation covers a large area but does not control every planet or installation inbetween; but their military might means that nobody else can control more than their own planet. What do you think?
Reversing the polarity of the neutron flow. I bet that means something. It sounds great.

Blake's 7: Trojan Horse (s4 fanfic) - Blake's 7: Through the Needle's Eye (s2 fanfic)

Spaceship Dispatcher's fanfic site
 
trevor travis
Whatís interesting about episodes such as Horizon, Countdown and Traitor is how small the Federation force is on each planet.

In Horizon, the Federation control is psychological and nothing else. Ro always had the ability to overthrow them if he wanted to.

In Countdown, itís through fear (the bomb ) and in Traitor, itís through drug control (Pylene 50).

It all gives the impression that the number of planets controlled by the Federation is truly vast, because they only have a few hundred people (if that) available to control each planet.

I get the idea that the area of space controlled by the Federation is very large indeed. There is no other ďempireĒ to speak of (well unless you go by Paulís books!!), so I think itís more Roman than British. The outer planets may be more patchwork in terms of Federation control (and why control the planets which have no mineral or strategic value), but everything in the inner worlds is Federation.

It's a massive, massive empire. Could Blake ever have destroyed the whole of it? Highly unlikely. Mind you, his pre-occupation was the Earth. He'd have been happy to defeat the Federation / Administration there. Which shows how he's started to lose the plot in Star One, because suddenly he's taking actions which would have far more effect on those in the Outer Worlds.
 
Spaceship Dispatcher
What strikes me about Horizon and other 'colonies' is that they seem to answerable to the Federation as a single political entity rather being being part of juristictional districts as might be the case in a regional empire covering large unbroken areas; albeit it's probably more to do with Terry Nation and Chris Boucher not complicating the politics because the rebellion was the main narrative focus.
Reversing the polarity of the neutron flow. I bet that means something. It sounds great.

Blake's 7: Trojan Horse (s4 fanfic) - Blake's 7: Through the Needle's Eye (s2 fanfic)

Spaceship Dispatcher's fanfic site
 
trevor travis
peladon wrote:
It also made top 10 sci fi series in another of the same set of polls - without any reference to the ending. So its not really an indication. If I had to guess what non fans most remember it would be the rebel angle, the ship and the bickering between the charactersCool


I know a few "non-fans" who remember B7.

The ship? Yes.
The rebel angle? Not really.
The bickering between the characters? Not the bickering as such, but they do remember Avon and Servalan.

Add one more:
The end of episode 52? Yep, all the "non-fans" I know remember that. Quite unforgettable. I would hasten to add, they don't all approve of the ending, but they certainly don't forget that.
 
trevor travis
Spaceship Dispatcher wrote:

What strikes me about Horizon and other 'colonies' is that they seem to answerable to the Federation as a single political entity rather being being part of juristictional districts as might be the case in a regional empire covering large unbroken areas; albeit it's probably more to do with Terry Nation and Chris Boucher not complicating the politics because the rebellion was the main narrative focus.


Or is it the case that we simply don't see enough of the Federation to see all the local govenors? After all, isn't Le Grand some sort of local governer? And Space Command works in parallel to the High Council. I imagine there's far more to the Federation than we ever see. We mostly see the police arm, who are chasing Blake.
 
Spaceship Dispatcher
trevor travis wrote:

I imagine there's far more to the Federation than we ever see. We mostly see the police arm, who are chasing Blake.

Which is why I argue against the 'evil Federation' theory, that the whole society is corrupt; we only see military intelligence and a handful of people in politics or the justice system. Even then, lots of them are reasonably okay.
Reversing the polarity of the neutron flow. I bet that means something. It sounds great.

Blake's 7: Trojan Horse (s4 fanfic) - Blake's 7: Through the Needle's Eye (s2 fanfic)

Spaceship Dispatcher's fanfic site
 
JustBrad
Spaceship Dispatcher wrote:

Which is why I argue against the 'evil Federation' theory, that the whole society is corrupt; we only see military intelligence and a handful of people in politics or the justice system. Even then, lots of them are reasonably okay.


Terms like Good and Evil are far too broad to apply to a complex story like Blake's 7, or indeed any good work of fiction. The most interesting heroes are flawed, the most interesting villains consider themselves the hero of their own story.
 
peladon
SD we have had this discussion before - not to revisit but all the salient information we are given indicate that it is as Blake describes it.

In terms of what kind of empire I'd say Roman in many ways with a reliance on the allegiance of political elites to maintain influence - probably by a range of means including fear. However it is clear that itís military is the mainstay of its power.

As for could it have fallen/been defeated? The answer has to yes, though probably not quickly, easily or maybe even from within. It was always most probably that like the Romans it would be an external aggressor that scuttled it. It would have been totally dependent on its C4 systems and the ability to respond with military action quickly. In place like Albian it responds with something else but itsí clear from the episode that the resistance there was widespread and determined. Incidentally thatís one wonderfully clear indication of the overall corruption of the Federation as an entity, Albian sought a legal route to freedom and the Federation responded with terrorism.

Could it have recovered from the alien war - not quickly if at all. Why? Itís lost most its space going military and with them its ability to respond rapidly. The number of Fed troopers on any planet is likely to be small and with no hope of reinforcement they would soon have been overpowered or gone native. The war was spread over many sectors and its unlikely it was just between ships, the aliens strategy was probably to get in and destroy as much as they could before the Fed responded, and they would certainly have continued to do damage to Fed supporting installations and infrastructure as they fought. So relay stations, repair yards, supply routes and stores etc, because that how you fight a war. The loss of sector wide comms alone would have crippled the Fed. Without ships and infrastructure and given the distances involved regaining control of the Inner worlds (as mentioned in RoD) is probably as much as they could hope for, and it seems from that episode that they have only recently done that.

The natural follow on from the war would be for the gradual loss of influence and further declining power or a shift to a more equal relationship with fewer partners Ė not the empire Servalan dreamed of.

Servalanís only way to avoid that fate would be a massive, quick, and cheap, technological leap Ė hence her need for the Liberator.
 
trevor travis
peladon wrote:
Could it have recovered from the alien war - not quickly if at all. Why? Itís lost most its space going military and with them its ability to respond rapidly. The number of Fed troopers on any planet is likely to be small and with no hope of reinforcement they would soon have been overpowered or gone native. The war was spread over many sectors and its unlikely it was just between ships, the aliens strategy was probably to get in and destroy as much as they could before the Fed responded, and they would certainly have continued to do damage to Fed supporting installations and infrastructure as they fought. So relay stations, repair yards, supply routes and stores etc, because that how you fight a war. The loss of sector wide comms alone would have crippled the Fed. Without ships and infrastructure and given the distances involved regaining control of the Inner worlds (as mentioned in RoD) is probably as much as they could hope for, and it seems from that episode that they have only recently done that.


Peladon, the "war" we see on screen seems to consist of one single battle that takes place out by Star One/Sarran/Chenga. Maybe there were secondary battles from the odd alien ship that escaped (Volcano and COA seem to suggest there was), but there seems little opportunity for the aliens to destroy the Federation's ability to destroy ships.

As early as Harvest, Jarvik is given three brand new Mark 10 pursuit ships.

The Federation is already well on its way to recovery by the fifth episode of Season C...
 
Spaceship Dispatcher
sweevo wrote:

Which episode served as the better series finale? The original ending (Terminal) or the infamous final chapter of the saga (Blake)? Votes and opinions, please.

Truly, my answer in this poll had the option been available would have been 'neither' since I'm not in favour of either episode! The show had many strengths, but imo ending each season well was not really one of them. The plot mechanism of Terminal depends too much on stupidity and contrivance while Blake, at the risk of provoking another circular debate about the episode's merits, is just a huge let down on every score for me. The best finale in Blake's 7 imo is Star One...
Reversing the polarity of the neutron flow. I bet that means something. It sounds great.

Blake's 7: Trojan Horse (s4 fanfic) - Blake's 7: Through the Needle's Eye (s2 fanfic)

Spaceship Dispatcher's fanfic site
 
Travisina
JustBrad wrote:
The most interesting heroes are flawed, the most interesting villains consider themselves the hero of their own story.

Trevor Baxendale said this about Travis:
Travis is a wonderful villain - every inch the blackhearted swine he should be, and yet both Stephen Greif and Brian Croucher play him as if he's the hero of the story. Because Travis sees himself as exactly that - the fiercely committed Federation warrior who is tasked with dealing with a known terrorist and his insurgent followers... (Interview with Trevor Baxendale)
Twitter: @TravisinaB7
Tumblr: tumblr
There's no point being grown up if you can't be childish sometimes
 
peladon
trevor travis wrote:


Peladon, the "war" we see on screen seems to consist of one single battle that takes place out by Star One/Sarran/Chenga. Maybe there were secondary battles from the odd alien ship that escaped (Volcano and COA seem to suggest there was), but there seems little opportunity for the aliens to destroy the Federation's ability to destroy ships.

As early as Harvest, Jarvik is given three brand new Mark 10 pursuit ships.

The Federation is already well on its way to recovery by the fifth episode of Season C...


We dont see 80% of the Fed fleet destroyed - but we are told it happens - so its canon. they are left with less than a third of their operating capability.We are told that the war raged over many sectors in Volcano (so its canon) and there is a suggestion of drifting debris in Children of Auron( suggesting widespread damage). We are 'told' that Blake has won - the Federation is finished as it was ,at the start of series C. Its is neither logical, nor feasible, that in maybe two yers any significant change could be made in that.

As for what is being produced, I doubt the aliens got to the inner worlds so any ship yards there would be functioning - however materials, spares, skills etc would be at a premium and so its not going to be much of a production line anf at the same time everyone else is doing the same. its clear that Servalan doesn't want to give Jarvik the ships but feels she will risk them in the pursuit of the one chance of rebuilding - Liberator technology. 3 new pursuit ships wouldnt go far acros even the inner worlds (assuming thats the solar system) let alone in the woder context of pre war Fed controlled space, even added to what remained (and those are not likely to be the front line fighting ships). At the end of Series C we are being reminded that the Federation is finished and shown that Servalan is still desperate for Liberator technology and Orac. So in my opinion taking all the canon indicators together (and not just an odd line here and there in inconsistently structured episodes,) it is not clear that it is recovering by the middle of series c. But I do realise that is harder to accept for series D lovers.
 
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